billy07 said:
rocketpig said:
Supposed said:
There's a huge amount of over-exaggeration in this thread. The true philosophical discussion/bullshit only comes into the game in the last half hour. If you cannot enjoy MGS2 because of its last half hour, or call it 'similar to being raped' then you obviously have never played a bad game.
It's a fact that game storylines have a long way to come compared to any other media format, but shooting a game down for trying to do something more than the 'SPACE MARINE SHOOT ALIEN' or 'orphaned child seeks revenge' clichés annoys me greatly.
Apart from that this thread reeks of anti-sony fanboyism. |
I would call it anti-Konamism more than anything. I'll play MGS4 but I'm not going to buy it until I find out whether Kojima pulled a MGS2 on me or not. I mentioned earlier that the gameplay wasn't bad, though Raiden annoyed the shit out of me. Outside of the story and Raiden, I have no problems with the game. And we're not saying that games shouldn't try to be more than "See Space Marine, Shoot Alien", we just want the more complex stories not to suck. After all, you don't see threads starting up talking about how terrible Deus Ex's story was. |
Deus ex didn't teach me about identity, memes, truths, self, what to pass on, censorship, freedom, society. |
That is your fault, Deus Ex made their points across the entire game without ever forcing too much on the player, and always had an impeccable presentation.
Look at this dialogue, that shows how much superior Deus Ex is to MGS2:
"So, below, you’ll find a short (but complete) dialogue copied from the game’s files between JC Denton, the player character, and Morpheus, a friendly artificial intelligence. This takes place in Paris, in a little room off a lab in one of the other characters’ bases. It’s a testament to the game’s level of detail that entering the room in which this takes place is not only not required, it’s not even hinted at. Yet, as you can see, the work that went into this is immense, demonstrating that the writers have a clear understanding of and interesting perspective on political philosophy:
Morpheus: JC Denton. 23 years old. No residence. No ancestors. No employer. No–
JC: How do you know who I am?
Morpheus: I must greet each visitor with a complete summary of his file. I am a prototype for a much larger system.
JC: What else do you know about me?
Morpheus: Everything that can be known.
JC: Go on. Do you have proof about my ancestors?
Morpheus: You are a planned organism, the offspring of knowledge and imagination rather than of individuals.
JC: I’m engineered. So what? My brother and I suspected as much while we were growing up.
Morpheus: You are carefully watched by many people. The unplanned organism is a question asked by Nature and answered by death. You are another kind of question with another kind of answer.
JC: Are you programmed to invent riddles?
Morpheus: I am a prototype for a much larger system. The heuristics language developed by Dr. Everett allows me to convey the highest and most succinct tier of any pyramidal construct of knowledge.
JC: How about a report on yourself?
Morpheus: I was a prototype for Echelon IV. My instructions are to amuse visitors with information about themselves.
JC: I don’t see anything amusing about spying on people.
Morpheus: Human beings feel pleasure when they are watched. I have recorded their smiles as I tell them who they are.
JC: Some people just don’t understand the dangers of indiscriminate surveillance.
Morpheus: The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms.
JC: Electronic surveillance hardly inspires reverence. Perhaps fear and obedience, but not reverence.
Morpheus: God and the gods were apparitions of observation, judgment, and punishment. Other sentiments toward them were secondary.
JC: No one will ever worship a software entity peering at them through a camera.
Morpheus: The human organism always worships. First it was the gods, then it was fame (the observation and judgment of others), next it will be the self-aware systems you have built to realize truly omnipresent observation and judgment.
JC: You underestimate humankind’s love of freedom.
Morpheus: The individual desires judgment. Without that desire, the cohesion of groups is impossible, and so is civilization.
There are a few more remarks that happen if you try to engage Morpheus in conversation further, but no further real dialogues are launched:
Morpheus: The human being created civilization not because of a willingness but because of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning.
This one is probably the most-quoted line in Deus Ex:
Morpheus: God was a dream of good government."
http://www.acroyear2.org/2007/11/24/a-small-snippet-of-deus-ex/
GOD this is making me want to play Deus Ex AGAIN!!
