There might be some holes in evolution, but I believe quite a bit of it. Natural selection is defiantly true more than likely.
Do you believe in evolution? | |||
| Yes | 657 | 75.69% | |
| Mostly, some things are questionable. | 74 | 8.53% | |
| No | 99 | 11.41% | |
| Not really, but some could be true. | 38 | 4.38% | |
| Total: | 868 | ||
There might be some holes in evolution, but I believe quite a bit of it. Natural selection is defiantly true more than likely.
JWeinCom said:
Ehhhhh.... I don't think any of that is right. By 1917 there were experiments already being conducted about the existence of protons and neutrons. At that point, they knew atoms could be divided. There was no concensus that the milky way was all of the universe. The more common theory (proposed in the 1500) was that the universe was infinite. So there were questions about it before then. Einstein was the one who brought the idea of a finite universe into prominence. |
Was there any proof of atoms not being a tomos (in-dividual) before Otto Hahn in 1938? Rutherford's experiments in 1917 paved the way, but that was also a hundred years ago.
Is there any scientific publication that postulates the existance of other galaxies before 1917?
Point is not to argue at what specific time scientific facts got overthrown - the history of science is perpetual change of consencus, no reason to believe our facts remain. Whatever dark energy & matter is will likely overthrow existing concepts of reality again.
The big money question if if our mode of acquiring knowledge will ever lead forward to a truth (if such a thing exists ontological) or perpetual sidestepping like the last thousands of years.
numberwang said:
Was there any proof of atoms not being a tomos (in-dividual) before Otto Hahn in 1938? Rutherford's experiments in 1917 paved the way, but that was also a hundred years ago. Is there any scientific publication that postulates the existance of other galaxies before 1917? Point is not to argue at what specific time scientific facts got overthrown - the history of science is perpetual change of consencus, no reason to believe our facts remain. Whatever dark energy & matter is will likely overthrow existing concepts of reality again. |
I'd consider Rutherford's experiments the point at which we knew the atom was non indivisible. But, if they were doing those experiments in 1917, I'd imagine there was some dispute before then.
As for scientific publications that postulate the existence of other galaxies, naturally I don't have them at my disposal. Nor am I aware of any science books touting the opposite. While other galaxies weren't postulated precisely, there was a belief in an infinite number of stars in the universe. It was a common belief for a few hundred years. It started being challenged in the 1700's in Olber's paradox which questioned how the sky could ever be dark with so infinite stars.
I'm not sure that any of this was proposed as fact though. Obviously someone probably did, but I don't know if it was on a large scale.
I'd say the prepetual change in science is getting closer to the truth. Newton's theory of gravity was not perfect, but it was certainly an advancement that provided useful practical benefits (and is still accurate in most cases). Einstein's theory of relativity again was not perfect, but was a huge leap forward. Darwin's theory of natural selection was also not perfect, but it set us on a path to the point where evolutionary models are used to fight disease. Freud's theory (which are borderline science) were far off base, but they nevertheless yielded useful concepts that have helped our understanding of the brain tremendously.
I'd hardly call this sidestepping. I'd call it progress. What we know now is demonstrably more accurate than what we had in the past.
Well I see it as fact but it is not 100% proven as that is why
It is called the Theory of Evolution and not the Law of Evolution.
| LadyJasmine said: Well I see it as fact but it is not 100% proven as that is why It is called the Theory of Evolution and not the Law of Evolution. |
This is 100% incorrect. You're using the words "theory" and "law" incorrectly as they apply to science.
In science, theory can never, ever, ever become a law. They serve two completely different purposes, and in no way indicate the level at which we believe the topic to be factual.
P.S. It's actually called "The Theory of Evolution via Natural Selection". See, what it does is describe the mechanism (Natural Selection) which is used to propogate the phenomena of evolution. There will never be a "Law of Evolution via Natural Selection" because that wouldn't make any sense given that Evolution really can't be modelled in a mathematical sense.
| numberwang said: Take a physics book form a hundred years ago and think about all the true facts |
Absolutely perfect. Most of what is below was defended as "fact" once upon a time quite similar to the pages of responses we've seen here in this thread. The theories many here are claiming as FACT will likely look quite different in another thousand years when our perspective is greater. We are still such scientific infants but too many are too proud of the leaps we've made in the last couple hundred years to see past their hubris.
. The anomalous perihelion precession of Mercury was the first observational evidence that Newtonian gravity was not totally accurate.

VGPolyglot said:
Evolution doesn't work like that. It's not like there's a clear shift into a new species. Instead, it's gradual change that becomes more noticeable when you compare a longer timespan. |
False.
Evolution is like a tree, we have a common ancestor with Apes, we didn't evolve from Apes.
Or you take a Great Dane and a Chiwawa... They are very distinct and different breeds of "dogs". - But they both evolved from a common ancestor, the Wolf. - the Wolf didn't stop existing as soon as Dogs came around however, dogs branched off.
Speciation has been proven to occur in real time... But we can't use a mammals with much longer life and breeding times, we need to use insects, such as the fruit fly, otherwise it would take longer than a life time to observe.
William Rice and George Salt back in the 80's built a maze with several different paths, with each path having different characteristics, such as one path being wet/dry or light/dark. - Each fly generation was placed into the maze... And the group of flies that exited out of one part of the maze were only allowed to breed with each other and not with the flies that exited out of another part of the maze.
After a few dozen generations, the fly's ended up being extremely distinct to the point where they couldn't even breed with each other when reintroduced, they were two seperate species.
That test has been done multiple times, peer reviewed and verified... Even you could do it in your home and watch evolution in real time.
| LivingMetal said: That's fine, but no one has yet to observe one kind of animal changing into another no matter how you slice is as I just pointed out (spliting hairs). |
Then we have the Wall Lizards... Which shows rapid evolution.
In the 70's Italian wall lizards were introduced to a small island where they weren't native, decades later they were compared to the native italian wall lizards... And there were substantual biological changes in the species, their diets changed from one that was insect-heavyt to one that was plant-heavy, the diet change resulted in the introduced lizards having a larger head with a stronger bite, new muscles in the intestine to seperate food portions to aid the bacteria to break down the plant matter.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html
I can provide many more expamples if you require it.
| JWeinCom said: Eh... evolution is not a theory. Like, I don't mean "it's not a theory because it's proven". I mean it's just literally not a theory. Like, there is no "theory of evolution". |
False. It is a Theory.
You take a bunch of facts that have been derived from verified, peer reviewed observation and experimentation... You build a model around that, which then is used to build a Theory.
Theories are not a guess, they are reliable accounts.
The Theory of Evolution most certainly does exist, we have observed changes in animals in real time, we have built models and experiments around that, we then use that to forward the Theory of Evolution.
| BlkPaladin said: |
Sorry that I had to cut your post, it was extensively long, I would have preferred to have given you the proper reply that you deserve... However. I would probably end up here all day. I'll keep it short instead.
The Bible is the Claim, not evidence.
If you have to re-interpret the Bible in a different way that deviates from the written literal interpretation of the text to make it compatible with science, then the Bible is inaccurate. Plain and Simple.
There is no evidence for God, there is no evidence of Intelligent design, ergo. Your religious ideology should not come before science... And you shouldn't try to fit your religion in with science, science has nothing to do with religion, it doesn't care about religion and it certainly doesn't care if a God does/does not exist... What science is truly about is explaining what we have observed with evidence, models and experimentation... Aka. Everything that your religion is against.

www.youtube.com/@Pemalite
The_Yoda said:
Absolutely perfect. Most of what is below was defended as "fact" once upon a time quite similar to the pages of responses we've seen here in this thread. The theories many here are claiming as FACT will likely look quite different in another thousand years when our perspective is greater. We are still such scientific infants but too many are too proud of the leaps we've made in the last couple hundred years to see past their hubris. Superseded scientific theoriesBiology
Chemistry
Physics
Astronomy and cosmology
Geography and climate
Geology
Psychology
Medicine
|
Science never claims to know something with certitude. It gives the best estimate we can get with the means available. Scientists know that their models will eventually be reworked. Scientists also tend to know where the biggest uncertitudes are. It is not to be forgotten that progress in the last century has been far beyond anything we have seen previously, thanks to a global uniformized collaboration and a greater focus on education.
Many of those you named were, despite their flaws, a major step in the right direction.
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palou said:
Science never claims to know something with certitude. It gives the best estimate we can get with the means available. Scientists know that their models will eventually be reworked. Scientists also tend to know where the biggest uncertitudes are. It is not to be forgotten that progress in the last century has been far beyond anything we have seen previously, thanks to a global uniformized collaboration and a greater focus on education.
Many of those you named were, despite their flaws, a major step in the right direction. |
Yes, but it's not feasible that we're going to come across a discovery that completely disproves the theory of evolution.