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Forums - General Discussion - "Fake" or "Fast" News (Not just Politics anymore)

 

Is "Fake News" a legitimate concept?

Yes 43 61.43%
 
No 22 31.43%
 
Not sure 5 7.14%
 
Total:70

Many media reports about Trump are Fake News. Like the Terror attack in Sweden of which he never talked about in his speech. (I watched the whole event and he was completely misunderstood and never said or meant that there has been a terror attack, he usually speaks about the extreme rise in crime and violence against women in Sweden and Germany and meant it that way. The reporter creating the false story must have never watched a Trump speech before. Also in Swedish local newspapers there are daily stories about many crimes commited by illegal immigrants or ISIS members because these are really happening)

But I also think that the term fake news is not not the best.

There are completely false news, but this is less than 1% of what falls under the fake news label.
Then there are one sided and biased news that focus on a very small part of the truth while leaving out other more or equally important parts, which leads to a false conclusion.
Then there are news based on fake facts or manipulated statistics, nearly all fact checking results fall under that category because they often are not true or based on fake facts or ideology.

Many of the fake news are debatable. Both sides cannot prove or disprove a fact or argument because their sources are biased or the very complex truth depends on the point of view. The world is complex and often there is not just a simple true or false.



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etking said:



Many of the fake news are debatable. Both sides cannot prove or disprove a fact or argument because their sources are biased or the very complex truth depends on the point of view. The world is complex and often there is not just a simple true or false.

Trump's fake news are easily proven fake. Like his latest comment about his electoral win. It's not debatable, it's a simple fact.



naruball said:
 

Trump's fake news are easily proven fake. Like his latest comment about his electoral win. It's not debatable, it's a simple fact.

Yes, the numbers given to him by his speech writers were wrong. But he did not tell the wrong numbers on purpose. Mistakes can happen and he admitted it. Putin also attacked Korea according to the Democrats because mistakes can happen.

The number of people watching his inauguation however is debatable because if you count the millions of online viewers the alternative facts are true. The press is making a fake story out of this.



Acevil said:
Miguel_Zorro said:
People only seem to care about fake news when it comes from the other side.

Pretty much this, and they will defend this missinformation, I see it in this thread already. It is only going to get worse, since we have adminstrations that now constantly do it. 

See the concept may exist for ages, and it exists look up fake incubator testimony which helped justify Gulf War, however this last two years I would say it is being passed around so readily. 

Yeah I think that we can/should all agree with this, too. Healthy skepticism is good when appraising any information :) at least society has taken an important step in recognising the prevalence and impact of "fake news", but the next step, logically combating it, is much harder.



Bandorr said:

 

Bowling Green massacre did not happen.

Thanks god it did not happen but it was planned and could have happened. If it happened or not is not relevant to the discussion at all, the posibility is there and it almost happened. Nobody claimed that it happened also, the media just made another fake news story out of it. But the armed terrorists were there but they were stopped.



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etking said:
naruball said:

Trump's fake news are easily proven fake. Like his latest comment about his electoral win. It's not debatable, it's a simple fact.

Yes, the numbers given to him by his speech writers were wrong. But he did not tell the wrong numbers on purpose. Mistakes can happen and he admitted it. Putin also attacked Koreaaccording to the Democrats because mistakes can happen.

The number of people watching his inauguation however is debatable because if you count the millions of online viewers the alternative facts are true. The press is making a fake story out of this.

Seriously? How is that an excuse? He hires the speech writers doesn't he? He checks the speeches, right?

A simple google search would have told any of them they were wrong. If they can't even get a simple thing like that right then how can you trust them to be competent enough to run a Country?

The media are doing the same thing they do with any new president. Trump is making it far too easy for them to call him out on his bull. 



John2290 said:
etking said:

The number of people watching his inauguation however is debatable because if you count the millions of online viewers the alternative facts are true. The press is making a fake story out of this.

Oh lord, G. Orwell and F. scott were right, doublethink can happen and it is happening. 1984 is starting to look like the work of a prophet. 

If you count only the physical visitors, media is right (despite the rain and the fact that entry often was blocked by protesters)
If you count in the online viewers that Spicer brought into the discussion, Trump had more viewers than any president before and he was given that information.

Both sides are right, depending on the viewpoint so where is the problem. The fake news story is the media claiming that Trump meant physical watchers while he was referring to all watchers (physical + online).

There are zero lies here just different perspectives and mainstream media that want to destroy Trump at any cost. The problem is that too many people are blindly believing the media without checking the real facts.



Slimebeast said:
Bandorr said:
Well Fake news IS a thing. You can look at anything Donald Trump is saying for proof of that.

You can look at the fake Sweden attack Trump made up yesterday.

He just misspoke. He meant that last night TV showed a segment about Sweden's problems with immigration. Not that last night something happened in Sweden.

So look what you just did, you provided fake information about Trump.

If he misspoke, he might as well have spread the fake news himself. It's not the media's responsibility to correct him misspeaking, especially when it's not at all obvious what he meant. The words he used were quite difficult to understand as a reference to what was shown on TV, but they were relatively easy to understand as a reference to an attack.



Peh said:
As far as I heard, fake news are labeled as news which contain false informations on purpose. The goal is to spread misinformations.

News, where the source is later being verified as false are not considered fake news.

Similar to "terrorism", there simply is no precise and commonly agreed on definition of the phrase "fake news".

Everybody uses his own, slightly different understanding of that phrase, which fits his personal agenda. Similar to the word "terrorism", "fake news" is always only what some perceived "enemy" does.

What you are describing is somewhat close to being something like the least common demoninator though; in cases where someone knowingly spreads false information, most people would agree that this can be considered an example of "fake news".

Still, even that definition has huge drawbacks:

- that definition also covers phenomenons like "hoaxes", or satirical news websites like "the onion" or "Der Postillon"
- in cases when the news is not satirical, that definition is basically useless. Because even if it can be proven that some information is false, the person who spread it will claim that he simply wasn't aware of that, and thus didn't actually lie.



robzo100 said:

People are taking the term "Fake" News literally and thereby finding themselves either confused or overly-confident that they are justified in saying it is a stupid term. Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuUWBW9Y4zA

It's a story about how Drumpf spends more on vacation than Obama, probably a combination of the fact that people who grow up wealthy are less frugal and also the fact that Drumpf's extended family in the White House (many grown adults, unlike Obama's Daughters) is much much larger than other administrations. Cut to the chase, even if it's wrong, it's not the kind of content that determines whether a president does or does not do a good job.

That's my definition of fake news right there. Obviously it's not a fake story, for god's sake no one is that dumb. That's why I say "fast" news akin to fast-food is a more accurate term. Yes, it's food, and yes it has protein and other nutrients to satisfy what the body needs...but for how long? It's a bite-sized piece of news. It's not a thorough investigation into a deep matter. It's not like a 1-hour documentary into a deep topic like you'll find in a documentary or a documentary-style show like Anothy Bourdain's Part's Unknown or Mike Rowe's Somebody's Gotta Do It. It's not a movie on climate change or JFK, etc.

Does this help one understand "Fake News" better?

From that perspective then, one should see how this carries over to all subject matter, videogames, entertainment, music, food, politics, sports, etc. Substantive news that focuses on deep issues, and quick news that is shallow. Fast-anything has become rampant in a society where not only do we have a 24-hour news cycle but also 24-media channels/outlets. If there is, at max, maybe 1 hour worth of substantive news in a given day, then how do you fill the ramining hours and channels? With fast-news.

That's my argument/POV. So, does anyone else see the validity in this new term that's been getting tossed around?

There is a valid argument to be made about media bias, but this is not how Trump is using the term.  He is using the term fake news to refer to any criticism of him.

And yes, there absolutely are fake stories.  Like the one about thousands of muslims celebrating in the streets on 9/11, or the attack on Friday in Sweeden, or the Bowling Green Massacre, or the attack in Atlanta, or Trump being invited to John Oliver's show, or Trump receiving a letter from the NFL about the debates, or Trump having the largest crowd at his inaugaration, or about it not raining during Trump's inaugaration, or that Trump owns Trump vineyards, or that Trump steaks are still being sold, or that millions of unregistered voters voted in the election.  Lots of fake news out there...