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Forums - Politics - Jonathan Blow Speaks Out For Free Speech

Puppyroach said:
nuckles87 said:

Yep.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/finger-pointing-after-milo-yiannopoulos-talk-at-uc-berkeley-scrapped-when-violence-breaks-out-at-peaceful-protest/

But it seems everyone is ignoring that to either tie the violence to protestors or advocate for political violence at protests. Not the first time this has happened at a protest either, to my understanding. 

The students protesting were just excercising their own free speech as well. Yeah, in our country Nazis allowed to say horrible hate speech. But you know what? Other people are allowed to protest that hate speech. A Nazi may have a right to say what he wants, but no one is obligated to give him a venue.

I don't support violence in political protests. But at least in this case, the protestors weren't the ones breaking and burning stuff.

Exactly! The focus should be to celebrate these students who actually used their 1st amendment rights and condemn the people who invaded the protest only to cause violence. Sadly republicans will use these assholes as an excuse to punish the peaceful protesters, which is just tragic.

I highly doubt the students of Berkeley are all as innocent as you claim. What else do you expect them to say? The MSM constantly lies about these "peaceful" protests over and over. They all just stood there and watched and none of them did anything wrong? Outsiders may have intigated it, but there is little doubt that none of the Berkeley students got involved in it.



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Sentinel said:
Puppyroach said:

Exactly! The focus should be to celebrate these students who actually used their 1st amendment rights and condemn the people who invaded the protest only to cause violence. Sadly republicans will use these assholes as an excuse to punish the peaceful protesters, which is just tragic.

I highly doubt the students of Berkeley are all as innocent as you claim. What else do you expect them to say? The MSM constantly lies about these "peaceful" protests over and over. They all just stood there and watched and none of them did anything wrong? Outsiders may have intigated it, but there is little doubt that none of the Berkeley students got involved in it.

By that logic, the whole demonstration might be a lie, it was after all the MSM that first reported of it :). Or you could use your own common sense: What is more likely, that the absolute majority of the students protested camly with some instigators invading it to cause trouble or that such a huge amount of students dress up in black clothes and hoodies to be violent? Of course a few students might have been involved but how can that be a reason to apply their behaviour on the entire group? Is that supposed to be the new standard for logic and rational behaviour?



Puppyroach said:
Sentinel said:

I highly doubt the students of Berkeley are all as innocent as you claim. What else do you expect them to say? The MSM constantly lies about these "peaceful" protests over and over. They all just stood there and watched and none of them did anything wrong? Outsiders may have intigated it, but there is little doubt that none of the Berkeley students got involved in it.

By that logic, the whole demonstration might be a lie, it was after all the MSM that first reported of it :). Or you could use your own common sense: What is more likely, that the absolute majority of the students protested camly with some instigators invading it to cause trouble or that such a huge amount of students dress up in black clothes and hoodies to be violent? Of course a few students might have been involved but how can that be a reason to apply their behaviour on the entire group? Is that supposed to be the new standard for logic and rational behaviour?

 I actually meant to reply to the comment that the protestors were not the ones breaking and burning stuff.  However, your are reaching hard with that ridiculous logic of yours. If you watch the various videos that the people who participate in these riots post and not only what the media shows you, you would know. Maybe you should get more informed instead making pointless comments.

By the same logic how can you excuse the whole group if you admit that students were involved? How do you know none of the students dressed up in black clothes and hoodies and helped to incite the riot? None of this is what most people would consider rational behavior; so where is the outrage against these people?



VGPolyglot said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.

It's ironic that when poor people are getting poisoned in Flint, when blacks are getting shot to death by police, and when hates crimes are committed against Muslims, etc. they turn a blind eye, but when a window's destroyed everyone is in uproar because apparently property is a lot more important than people.

I'm seeing more hate crimes from the left than the right.



WolfpackN64 said:
Aura7541 said:

Not all uncivil activity are equal. Rioting causes more damage than verbal insults, especially considering what the rioters did in the campus...

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.

So, that's how you excuse the violence from the rioting left? Got it.



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StarOcean said:
Unlike what I've been accused of, I am not part of the "left". But rather anti-Trump. And as the days go by more and more will join the cause against him -and I hope it continues to ramp up. And I'll be anti-Trump until he either a. resigns, b. gets assassinated, or c. gets impeached. Also, Trump is 100% a facist, not the other way around. Especially telling with him wanting to "destroy" the Johnson amendment among other things. His people will support him but nothing they or their "alternative facts" *cough*bullshitfakenewstheyuse*cough* say will change my mind

I'd like to think this is sarcastic but this is such a hypocritical way of thinking that I can help but laugh at people who has hopes on someone getting assassinated. That's going to further throw the whole thing in disarray.

Never change folks.

Bonus points if you're an American.

I don't agree with Trump but I'll just throw this here. Antifa is a bullshit movement. And so are a lot of the entitled vocal "Liberals".



Illusion said:

The left has completely lost its moral high ground in the past years and advocating the assassination of Trump only reveals how ugly they really are. The left now has more in common with mind-controlled cultists then they do with any kind of legitimate political movement. You used to fight for women's rights to vote and to work, for black people to have basic human rights. You had men like Martin Luther King who had the option and the cause to turn to violence but instead choose peace and love to resolve grave social injustice. You fought against unjust wars like Iraq where lousy governments went to war over made up issues. What happened to you?

Now I look at the left calling for martial law and the assassination of a president who has barely been in office for two weeks. You spend your time calling a man a fascist and a racist who spent a significant part of his inaugural speech talking about how all Americans have the same color blood regardless of our race and how he wanted to unite the country (you haven't even given him a chance). Trump talks about uniting people while the left-wing media spends almost all of its time segregating people into black and white categories and talking about how angry we should all be. The feminists now spend their time sulking about vague concepts like rape culture and white male privilege while more women then men now earn university degrees and then they go on to completely ignore the massacre and mass sexual abuse of women in the middle east at the hands of a barbaric hyper-masculine culture. The left once held the moral high ground on war but now you are advocating open war with Russia over a vastly disproportionate issue such as hacking and of which you have seen zero proof (furthermore you are being informed by the same agency that told you that Iraq had WMDs).

The left has crossed the line from being the good guys on many issues to being outright bad. The left are starting riots, beating up women, trashing property while they accuse Trump of being Hitler. The left has far more in common with Hitler than Trump does right now, this is dangerous cultist mind control and if you support the left then you need to wake up and see the harm that you are causing right now. And remember, the only thing more dangerous then a stupid person is a smart person who chooses not to use their brain.

Well said, sir. 

In all fairness, most of what you've described comes from a small contingent of extremists, the problem is that the extremists always make the most noise, while the more sensible moderate majority gets drowned out (on both sides of the isle). Yet, while I still feel as though the bulk of leftists don't subscribe to these sorts of behaviors, what IS frustrating to me is that even many of the more moderate left seem to either excuse this kind of behavor, turn the other cheek, or justify it in some way by pointing to some extreme element/action/behavior of the far right. 

I'm a liberal, but I feel like my team has completely gone off the rails, and the somewhat authoritarian nature of Trump has only inflamed this. And this will in turn make him take MORE authoritarian actions, and the cycle will just keep gaining momentum. I fear it will reach a fevered pitch where people are going to start ending up dead, and that disturbs and sadens me deeply. It is the result of people not listening to eachother and being further and further carried away by their echochamers of mainstream/social media feeding into their predjudices and ideals.

I feel like my fellow leftists have completely lost track of the REAL issues, the issues that matter, and have fallen for the media sensationalism of this pseudo social justice and white guilt bs. They were on the right track with Occupy Wallstreet - the rich vs poor issue, and have migrated to this self-defeating issue of race and gender identity politics. This is the type of trend that has opened up a void for people like Trump (on the political level) and Milo (on the media/acedemia level) to step in and draw a large base from all over the spectrum, even liberals like myself, who are fed up with this reactionary element of the far left, with their hypocracies and their sensationalism in which they take these false social justice group-think ideals to justify their hatred and sometimes even violence. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Sentinel said:
Puppyroach said:

By that logic, the whole demonstration might be a lie, it was after all the MSM that first reported of it :). Or you could use your own common sense: What is more likely, that the absolute majority of the students protested camly with some instigators invading it to cause trouble or that such a huge amount of students dress up in black clothes and hoodies to be violent? Of course a few students might have been involved but how can that be a reason to apply their behaviour on the entire group? Is that supposed to be the new standard for logic and rational behaviour?

 I actually meant to reply to the comment that the protestors were not the ones breaking and burning stuff.  However, your are reaching hard with that ridiculous logic of yours. If you watch the various videos that the people who participate in these riots post and not only what the media shows you, you would know. Maybe you should get more informed instead making pointless comments.

By the same logic how can you excuse the whole group if you admit that students were involved? How do you know none of the students dressed up in black clothes and hoodies and helped to incite the riot? None of this is what most people would consider rational behavior; so where is the outrage against these people?

Because even if all 150 of these masked violent protestors would have been part of the 1500 peaceful protesters during the day, it would still at most account for 10% of all students who participated. I am not excusing the whole group, I am excusing those that protested peacefully. I know there are a lot of republicans that don't like when people protest, even when it's peaceful. Good thing the protesters always have the most important amendment on their side though.



Puppyroach said:

Because even if all 150 of these masked violent protestors would have been part of the 1500 peaceful protesters during the day, it would still at most account for 10% of all students who participated. I am not excusing the whole group, I am excusing those that protested peacefully. I know there are a lot of republicans that don't like when people protest, even when it's peaceful. Good thing the protesters always have the most important amendment on their side though.

I'm not really sure how much plausible deniability you have if you stick around while people are being waylaid with flagpoles. At what point do peaceful protesters (many of whom seem perfectly happy to use the heckler's veto, which is not exactly peaceful) just become the good cop in a good cop/bad cop routine?



MTZehvor said:
Zkuq said:

He's undermined democracy, and he's also happily continued an executive order on immigration despite a federal judge finding it unlawful (i.e. he's acting against the law).

The accusation of "undermining democracy" is vague, at best. In what ways has he undermined democracy? For the most part, he's doing pretty much what he promised to do during the campaign (with the admitted notable exception of being "tough on Wall Street), and voters elected him on those promises. That sounds like upholding democracy to me, regardless of whether they're promises I would prefer not be followed through on.

He has not "followed through" on any executive orders that were found unconstitutional. He's challenged both of the recent federal rulings in court, which is well within the rights of a president (or any person). If you believe that a ruling is unfair, you have every right to appeal it (I can point to numerous examples where this same thing happened under the Bush and Obama administrations). It's not as if he continued to enforce the parts of the ban that were struck down before the recent ruling that kept the ban in place. Whether he'll continue to do so after the Seattle ruling that struck down the entire ban remains to be seen, but that's just it; it remains to be seen. You can't legitimately accuse him of doing something that he hasn't done yet.

I thoroughly dislike Trump, but waving wild accusations around with no specifics or evidence to back them up is beneficial to no one's cause.

I don't think most of his actions are problematic for democracy. I really disagree about pretty much everything he's promised to do and is doing, but most of his actions aren't really problematic for democracy. But he's also made some pretty worrying comments, especially regarding voter fraud. He's made several essentially different comments about it, and they're all more or less undermining democracy: double standards on voter fraud (his votes must not be checked, Clinton's votes much not be checked after the results declared him the winner), hinting at refusing to accept the result of the election in case Clinton won, his comments about the press... I'm sure there's more, that's just what comes to mind right now. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume he doesn't hold democracy in very high regard.

Ah, I see. Thank for the clarification on the rulings! If he does end up losing though, I think we both agree that he should follow the rulings.