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zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Pushing a game like this actively harms Switch's image, because people might start to see the system itself as gimmicky and lame by association. Thankfully it isn't bundled, so hopefully it flops.

you're so over dramatic

While I disagree with him that this is an issue, he has some grounds for this.  A big part of what killed the Wii U was the fact that Wii Sports, while it made Nintendo lots of money, wound up thoroughly ruining the Wii brand.  Ask most people what the first thing they think of with the Wii, the first five things will be Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, and shovelware.  That's the average Joe Consumer response.  Now, the Wii got a ton of success ahead of that becoming an issue, but with the more conected time we live in that process could happen much faster with the Switch, especially since people are predisposed towards that attitude now.



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Nuvendil said:
zorg1000 said:

you're so over dramatic

While I disagree with him that this is an issue, he has some grounds for this.  A big part of what killed the Wii U was the fact that Wii Sports, while it made Nintendo lots of money, wound up thoroughly ruining the Wii brand.  Ask most people what the first thing they think of with the Wii, the first five things will be Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, and shovelware.  That's the average Joe Consumer response.  Now, the Wii got a ton of success ahead of that becoming an issue, but with the more conected time we live in that process could happen much faster with the Switch, especially since people are predisposed towards that attitude now.

No, Wii Sports did not hurt the Wii brand, that is one of the most rediculous claims I have ever heard.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Nuvendil said:

While I disagree with him that this is an issue, he has some grounds for this.  A big part of what killed the Wii U was the fact that Wii Sports, while it made Nintendo lots of money, wound up thoroughly ruining the Wii brand.  Ask most people what the first thing they think of with the Wii, the first five things will be Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart, and shovelware.  That's the average Joe Consumer response.  Now, the Wii got a ton of success ahead of that becoming an issue, but with the more conected time we live in that process could happen much faster with the Switch, especially since people are predisposed towards that attitude now.

No, Wii Sports did not hurt the Wii brand, that is one of the most rediculous claims I have ever heard.

If you think the Wii becoming 100% synonymous with motion controlled party-orriented games with little substance that were consistently marketed towards a market outside the primary demographics that made up the dedicated gaming device market in gens 1 to 6 and now makes up the market in gen 8 had no impact on the Wii brand then...well I have no idea what to even say to that. 

Nearly every average consumer of dedicated gaming devices lambasts the Wii for being tainted by "casual" motion controlled games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, etc etc.  Because while other games sold well, Wii Sports was literally the most ubiquitous game a console has ever had with an attach rate of over EIGHTY PERCENT.  You cannot use the opinions of a site like this that is populated by a small subset that is waist deep in sales speculation and follows every release and piece of news constantly as the basis for what the average Joe thinks.  I mean shoot, I have seen people who are serious gamers who don't even REMEMBER that Twilight Princess was a launch title, who only think it was Wii Sports and the casual motion craze that pushed the Wii for the first 12 months and even further.  The constant bashing of the Wii motion controls as purely a gimmick.  And yes, a lot of the blame for this does fall on Wii Sports because it was literally everywhere: on every box, in tons of marketing, in every house that had a Wii.  Now as I said, the Wii's reputation stayed afloat for a long while and there are obvious reasons for that:  the technology was new and therefore cool for a time, the thing was marketed obsessively for a time, and of course the sheer success of it was somewhat self-perpetuating as it made it must have in many people's eyes.  But in the longrun, the Wii brand was completely gutted by the time the Wii U came back, with no respect left to it.  Wii Sports and the other Wii games were fantastic sellers for the Wii and did a lot in the 7th gen, but by allowing those to dominate to near exclusion of all other games the image of the Wii, the Wii became *entirely* about that in many people's minds to the exclusion of almost all else.



Nuvendil said:
zorg1000 said:

No, Wii Sports did not hurt the Wii brand, that is one of the most rediculous claims I have ever heard.

If you think the Wii becoming 100% synonymous with motion controlled party-orriented games with little substance that were consistently marketed towards a market outside the primary demographics that made up the dedicated gaming device market in gens 1 to 6 and now makes up the market in gen 8 had no impact on the Wii brand then...well I have no idea what to even say to that. 

Nearly every average consumer of dedicated gaming devices lambasts the Wii for being tainted by "casual" motion controlled games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, etc etc.  Because while other games sold well, Wii Sports was literally the most ubiquitous game a console has ever had with an attach rate of over EIGHTY PERCENT.  You cannot use the opinions of a site like this that is populated by a small subset that is waist deep in sales speculation and follows every release and piece of news constantly as the basis for what the average Joe thinks.  I mean shoot, I have seen people who are serious gamers who don't even REMEMBER that Twilight Princess was a launch title, who only think it was Wii Sports and the casual motion craze that pushed the Wii for the first 12 months and even further.  The constant bashing of the Wii motion controls as purely a gimmick.  And yes, a lot of the blame for this does fall on Wii Sports because it was literally everywhere: on every box, in tons of marketing, in every house that had a Wii.  Now as I said, the Wii's reputation stayed afloat for a long while and there are obvious reasons for that:  the technology was new and therefore cool for a time, the thing was marketed obsessively for a time, and of course the sheer success of it was somewhat self-perpetuating as it made it must have in many people's eyes.  But in the longrun, the Wii brand was completely gutted by the time the Wii U came back, with no respect left to it.  Wii Sports and the other Wii games were fantastic sellers for the Wii and did a lot in the 7th gen, but by allowing those to dominate to near exclusion of all other games the image of the Wii, the Wii became *entirely* about that in many people's minds to the exclusion of almost all else.

You are mistaking average joe for "hardcore gamers". Average Joe had alot of fun playing Wii Sports and overall look back at it fondly while the "hardcore gamer" thought it was trash because it didnt fit their definition of what a "real" game is.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Nuvendil said:

If you think the Wii becoming 100% synonymous with motion controlled party-orriented games with little substance that were consistently marketed towards a market outside the primary demographics that made up the dedicated gaming device market in gens 1 to 6 and now makes up the market in gen 8 had no impact on the Wii brand then...well I have no idea what to even say to that. 

Nearly every average consumer of dedicated gaming devices lambasts the Wii for being tainted by "casual" motion controlled games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, etc etc.  Because while other games sold well, Wii Sports was literally the most ubiquitous game a console has ever had with an attach rate of over EIGHTY PERCENT.  You cannot use the opinions of a site like this that is populated by a small subset that is waist deep in sales speculation and follows every release and piece of news constantly as the basis for what the average Joe thinks.  I mean shoot, I have seen people who are serious gamers who don't even REMEMBER that Twilight Princess was a launch title, who only think it was Wii Sports and the casual motion craze that pushed the Wii for the first 12 months and even further.  The constant bashing of the Wii motion controls as purely a gimmick.  And yes, a lot of the blame for this does fall on Wii Sports because it was literally everywhere: on every box, in tons of marketing, in every house that had a Wii.  Now as I said, the Wii's reputation stayed afloat for a long while and there are obvious reasons for that:  the technology was new and therefore cool for a time, the thing was marketed obsessively for a time, and of course the sheer success of it was somewhat self-perpetuating as it made it must have in many people's eyes.  But in the longrun, the Wii brand was completely gutted by the time the Wii U came back, with no respect left to it.  Wii Sports and the other Wii games were fantastic sellers for the Wii and did a lot in the 7th gen, but by allowing those to dominate to near exclusion of all other games the image of the Wii, the Wii became *entirely* about that in many people's minds to the exclusion of almost all else.

You are mistaking average joe for "hardcore gamers". Average Joe had alot of fun playing Wii Sports and overall look back at it fondly while the "hardcore gamer" thought it was trash because it didnt fit their definition of what a "real" game is.

And I think that this is a very incorrect perception.  The hardcore minority is actually where you will find those who actually have a balanced view of the Wii cause they actually follow trailers and news.  The shallow, "that's not a game", judge by the cover, "I don't want gimmicks!" mindset is, imho, the dominant one.  Motion controls are decidedly disliked, Wii Sports was the most ubiquitous game on the Wii, Wii Sports is all motion controls, therefore Wii=gimmicky console.  It's not that Wii Sports was entirley crap.  It was vapid and a lot of people have a pretty dang low opinion of it despite their fun times with it, but it was good for being a pack in title.  But it made the Wii a single-note devide in terms of reputation:  it WAS motion controls.  And thus the Wii brand was entirely tied to the frankly doomed reputation of said controls.  That's my whole point, the Wii was tied by Wii Sports to the ship of motion controls and had no hope of getting off and when they sunk, it went with it.

The average consumer of dedicated gaming devices NOW is not the one from the seventh gen, a gen swelled to ridiculous numbers by neighboring markets dabbling temporarily in the industry.  We are essentially back to the sixth gen makeup, an audience very much entrenched in traditional gaming.  That's your average consumer that actually cares about dedicated gaming devices at this point.  And that's the audience that has very low opinions of the Wii.   And yes that is largely tied to the motion controls that absolutely dominate people's memory of the system.  And yes, that dominance is largely due to Wii Sports and co.



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This is just my opinion so don't shoot me. Based on the trailer it seems that they're trying to go after the Wii crowd again. But truth be told, I see this being appealing to Japanese and the Nintendo core audience but losing the children demography. Parents won't be buying one for each of their kids like they did with the 3DS and DS, especially not at $300. And in this day and age, people don't need to carry a dedicated handheld anymore.



This is the result of Scott Moffit leaving Nintendo and leaving a team of people in charge of marketing instead of one boring guy.



Wii Sports did not hurt the Wii brand at all. Wii U's poor marketing, lack of software the first year, high price, and the confusion which led people to believe it was just an add-on long after it's release is what hurt the brand. An actual Wii-2 which launched with a Wii Sports sequel would have sold fine. If Wii Sports had hurt the Wii then Resort would not have sold half as well as it did.

1-2 Switch looks fine for what it is. The sword-fighting mini-game looks like it could be really fun, the quick-draw mini-game is starting to win me over, and the others look like they could be dumb fun at parties. I honestly think what's happening is that some hardcore gamers are just having a negative reaction to something new. Screenless gaming probably wouldn't work with games like Zelda and Mario, but it could become a thing for party games and even 'visual' novels, based on developer interviews.



Nuvendil said:
zorg1000 said:

You are mistaking average joe for "hardcore gamers". Average Joe had alot of fun playing Wii Sports and overall look back at it fondly while the "hardcore gamer" thought it was trash because it didnt fit their definition of what a "real" game is.

And I think that this is a very incorrect perception.  The hardcore minority is actually where you will find those who actually have a balanced view of the Wii cause they actually follow trailers and news.  The shallow, "that's not a game", judge by the cover, "I don't want gimmicks!" mindset is, imho, the dominant one.  Motion controls are decidedly disliked, Wii Sports was the most ubiquitous game on the Wii, Wii Sports is all motion controls, therefore Wii=gimmicky console.  It's not that Wii Sports was entirley crap.  It was vapid and a lot of people have a pretty dang low opinion of it despite their fun times with it, but it was good for being a pack in title.  But it made the Wii a single-note devide in terms of reputation:  it WAS motion controls.  And thus the Wii brand was entirely tied to the frankly doomed reputation of said controls.  That's my whole point, the Wii was tied by Wii Sports to the ship of motion controls and had no hope of getting off and when they sunk, it went with it.

The average consumer of dedicated gaming devices NOW is not the one from the seventh gen, a gen swelled to ridiculous numbers by neighboring markets dabbling temporarily in the industry.  We are essentially back to the sixth gen makeup, an audience very much entrenched in traditional gaming.  That's your average consumer that actually cares about dedicated gaming devices at this point.  And that's the audience that has very low opinions of the Wii.   And yes that is largely tied to the motion controls that absolutely dominate people's memory of the system.  And yes, that dominance is largely due to Wii Sports and co.

Sorry mate but you're heavily wrong here, Wii Sports never hurt the Wii Brand in fact its absence on Wii U was one of the things that hurt the Wii U, the handling of the Wii U is what hurt the platform not Wii Sports that claim is just flat out wrong.



Wyrdness said:
Nuvendil said:

And I think that this is a very incorrect perception.  The hardcore minority is actually where you will find those who actually have a balanced view of the Wii cause they actually follow trailers and news.  The shallow, "that's not a game", judge by the cover, "I don't want gimmicks!" mindset is, imho, the dominant one.  Motion controls are decidedly disliked, Wii Sports was the most ubiquitous game on the Wii, Wii Sports is all motion controls, therefore Wii=gimmicky console.  It's not that Wii Sports was entirley crap.  It was vapid and a lot of people have a pretty dang low opinion of it despite their fun times with it, but it was good for being a pack in title.  But it made the Wii a single-note devide in terms of reputation:  it WAS motion controls.  And thus the Wii brand was entirely tied to the frankly doomed reputation of said controls.  That's my whole point, the Wii was tied by Wii Sports to the ship of motion controls and had no hope of getting off and when they sunk, it went with it.

The average consumer of dedicated gaming devices NOW is not the one from the seventh gen, a gen swelled to ridiculous numbers by neighboring markets dabbling temporarily in the industry.  We are essentially back to the sixth gen makeup, an audience very much entrenched in traditional gaming.  That's your average consumer that actually cares about dedicated gaming devices at this point.  And that's the audience that has very low opinions of the Wii.   And yes that is largely tied to the motion controls that absolutely dominate people's memory of the system.  And yes, that dominance is largely due to Wii Sports and co.

Sorry mate but you're heavily wrong here, Wii Sports never hurt the Wii Brand in fact its absence on Wii U was one of the things that hurt the Wii U, the handling of the Wii U is what hurt the platform not Wii Sports that claim is just flat out wrong.

What?  The Wii U had Wii Sports!  Wii Sports Club launched in November, 2013.  And no one cared.   No one rushed out to buy it.  No one saw it on shelves and freaked out.  It has sold less than half a million copies to date retail, Bayonetta 2 tops that and it's a niche Platinum game. The Wii-game brand is practically dead.  The fact you didn't even remember Wii Sports Club and that it sold so poorly is proof of my point that it has no pull whatsoever with the current market.

Now yes, Wii U's marketing was a disaster, said that myself countless times.  But the Wii brand was severely damaged well before then.  By 2012, many associated the word Wii with motion controlled gimmickery.  And Wii Sports was instrumental to that: it firmly tied the Wii to motion controls to almost the exclusion of all else.  When motion controls fell out of fashion and the audience that still cared left, the Wii brand's strength crumbled away.  The Wii U had an uphill battle from day one.