Lmao wtf? Make your mind up. Does the casual market exist or not? You can't say it's "little more than bs marketing terms" yet two sentences later admit that "Sure, Wii did well with the "casual market"". 

Will the Switch attract more gamers? No, because Nintendo still does not see what gaming has become and now is desperately playing catch-up, shown by them trying to push Skyrim on the Switch, a game that is over 5 years old. No one will care about 1,2 Switch or Arms (why would they?), and only the Nintendo crew will bother buying it. The Wii U will have an extremely weak library because it will have very few quality third party titles thanks to the non-x86 architecture it has. 

I'm guessing you neither work for a big company or undersand how business works?

In the last five years, these are the key metrics:
1) The Wii U has been the slowest ever selling console.
2) The 3DS has been Nintendo's worst performing console.
3) Nintendo posted it's first quartly losses.

It literally doesn't matter that they sold "X", because, and this is something you absolutely failed to grasp the first time, it shows their business plan and strategy have failed. Also the most recent financials show that sales are down 27% YoY. Now, to say any of that is healthy and no need for concern, you would have to have an extremely rudimentary (read: non-existant) understanding of business finances and market plans. But y'know, carry on with your #alternativeeconomics

You are changing your argument as the discussion was never about their performance from a business standpoint, earlier you said that there is no market for Nintendo devices and Nintendo games, being able to sell 80 million units of hardware & over 200 million units of 1st party software (over 400m total sw) in a 5 year period is undeniable proof that there is a market for Nintendo products even if it is a decline from previous generations.

Those previous fiscal losses were due to selling hardware at a loss, 3DS was sold at a loss for about a year and Wii U was sold at a loss for essentially it's entire life. There is a big difference between losing money because you make poor financial choices and losing money because your products are not appealing, Nintendo's losses came from the former, not the latter.

A perfect example is Sony last generation, PSP+PS3 sold about 165 million units of hardware and about 1.2 billion units of software. With numbers like that you can't deny that the Playstation market was strong. Despite those high sales Sony's gaming division had huge losses for a good chunk of the generation primarily due to PS3 being sold at a massive loss for a few years. Look at the Playstation division now, overall PS4+Vita hardware/software sales will probably be similar to PS3+PSP but the big difference is that Sony is set to have profits in the billions this generation compared to losing billions in the previous generation.

How can you go from losing billions to making billions with similar level of sales? By making better financial decisions. Theoretically Nintendo can be very profitable with a userbase of 80 million units of hardware and 400 million units of software each generation if they don't make poor decisions such as selling hardware at a loss.

Yeah, I agree it is not another Wii u.
Wii u had a horrible name and marketing that was not able to safe it, it seemed that gamers were the only ones that knew about it, many others thought that it was just a controller for wii or didnt know or care about it.
Game cube was a purple lunchbox that seemed to be for children.

Switch is completely different from those two. It seems fresh and new. Looks and sounds cool enough. Is quite powerfull for a handheldhome console thingie and has a Zelda for a launch title to attract Zelda fans. It even seem to have better potential to get many third parties on board as shown by gettin skyrim etc.

I think it would be really weird if Switch werent at least a moderate success and there is a chance that it could be very succesfull, we just have to wait a bit to see what happens.

Also why wouldnt somebody be interested in Arms? So far the feedback has been positive and it looks fun, what more can be asked?

I just think HD rumble seems pretty cool if games use it to it's full potential (hentai games will never be the same again,) at this point, Nintendo has already perfected motion control from journalists saying that it's better than anything else they've tried as well on top of normal control options. It's pretty much a solid evolution that has now gone hybrid with a pretty high end mobile chipset with Nintendo handheld reputation. I mean, I see a lot of potential in it.

Will the Switch be another WIi U? Yes, because Nintendo have crappy business plans, and have failed to grasp Western gaming.

Proof that they have crappy business plans and strategy? See my post above...

You are just repeating 80 million units of hardware sold on the hilarious notion that it sounds like a big number. Clearly it wasn't big enough otherwise Nintendo wouldn't have posted their first ever losses in the last 5 years. If you want more proof, look at the continued adjustments they made to the forecasted Wii U sales...

If your understanding of economics is as basic as "but they sold MILLIONS!", then this conversation can't continue as you don't realise that such a comment is unquestionably valueless.

No, there isn't a difference between poor financial choices and having an unappealing product, other than one results in investing in the other i.e. a poor financial choice is to invest in an unappealing product. Simple stuff this, but you're really bending reality to fit your argument. 

I'm not sure why you are combining handheld sales with console sales considering they are different markets. You don't combine 4x4 sales and supercar sales, so why are you combing these different markets? The PS2 sold over 50% more than the PS3, so the PS3 arguably failed in recapturing it's previous market. If you understand business plans (you clearly don't that much is obvious), you can see that Sony would not have betted on losing such a large market chunk, hence why it would of been hit with huge loses (that and the failed CELL IBM adventure, and expensive investment in bluray diode manufacturing).

Keep saying Nintendo is fine and quoting arbitrary sales figures with no context, I'll be over here with the grownups talking about business plans, strategy and YoY returns.

Well, if you are interested in profits and all that, here are what I found on google, simple google search mind you:

Nintendo https://www.statista.com/statistics/216625/net-income-of-nintendo-since-2008/

Sony https://www.statista.com/statistics/279271/net-income-of-sony-since-2008/

As a whole company, Nintendo is doing just fine, Sony has been in way more trouble over the years, so I honestly don't know what you are on other than hating on Nintendo for no good reason lol. Opinions are fine and all but, I doubt you know shit about how to run giant companies like Sony or Nintendo, so if you want to call yourself a grownup, stop with the blind hate first, and we can go from there.

That remains to be seen, for all we know Switch will be the next 3DS or Wii or DS. It could be a smash hit or a huge failure or something in between, only time will tell.

Again, im repeating those numbers because you said there is no market for Nintendo products, which cant be true if Nintendo sells alot of hardware & software. Those two things are completely contradictory, you cant say a company is out of touch when it comes to software if they are  the biggest software provider in the industry. The fact that you cant grasp that is embarrassing.

Being appealing to consumers and being profitable are 100% different things.

Im combining handhelds & consoles for 2 reasons

1. The discussion is about Nintendo, you cant have a discussion about the appeal of a company's products and ignore the part of the market that resresents 80% of their hardware/software sales. Like I said earlier, using Wii U as proof that people dont want Nintendo devices/games is the equivalent of using Vita to prove people dont like Playstation.

2. Switch is a hybrid device and will most likely be a replacement not only to Wii U but also 3DS once its sales & software support dry up. If it replaces both than why would we compare it only to the one that sold poorly? Oh right, because it supports your agenda!!!

It isn't.

Wii U sold 13 million in 4 years.

Sega Saturn sold 9 million in 4 years.

Turbografx-16 sold 10 million units in 7 years.

Intellivision sold 3 million units in 4 years.

Colecovision slightly over 2 million in 3 years.

Atari 5200 sold slightly over 1 million in a year and a half.

Atari Jaguar sold less than 250,000 in 3 years.

CD-i sold 1 million units in 7 years.

Apple Pippen sold just 42,000 in it's one year on the market.

What I'm saying, smart guy, is that Wii did well with what the market would interpret as "casual" but they did well with more than just those types, and those terms are largely just bs buzzwords created by the industry and don't mean much - as they are ambiguous, ever changing, and open to interpretation. At the end of the day, it boils down to attracting consumers or not. The labels don't matter. And I see a lot more value and appeal in Switch than I ever saw in Wii U, and I don't think I'm alone. Between the library, which already looks stronger than Wii U, the portability, and versatility, I don't see a scenario in which this console doesn't at least sell moderately more than the Wii U. The strength of a mainline Pokemon title alone almost ensures decent sales. A certain contingent of people (particularly the forum dwellers) seem to think the gaming world revolves around their tastes, and AAA western third party blockbuster type games that these people constantly eat up. It doesn't..

I love also that so many random forum dwellers think they know so much more than a multibillion dollar corporation. And I'm sure once Switch sells strongly these people are going to get creative yet again and come up with another way to discredit it, just like so many were proven wrong when they were absolutely convinced the Wii was going to be a horrible failure..