By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Where do the Third Party/Nintendo fan issues come from?

potato_hamster said:
KrspaceT said:

Is it a chicken and the egg question, or is there a definite answer. 

 

Does it start with the gamers, or the games themselves? If the gamers don't buy is it the publishers fault? If the games are bad, is it the fans fault?

 

I admit I am thinking about this question with the switch looming and I'd like some thoughts on the matter. 

Trick question, nothing is ever Nintendo (or it's fan's) fault!

Dozens of publishers have made great, highly reviewed games that sold absolutely terribly on Nintendo platforms, so they don't bother making any more. The average Nintendo fan doesn't really care about third party games, but the again, the average Nintendo fan also bought a Wii U.

Examples please? 



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

Around the Network
KLAMarine said:
bunchanumbers said:
It started in the 80s when Nintendo wanted to keep control of 3rd parties and it has been a distrustful relationship ever since.
Ka-pi96 said:
It`s Nintendo`s fault. They`re the ones that alienated 3rd party publishers and pushed them away to Sony/Microsoft in the first place. Hearing about some of the things they demanded from 3rd parties that released on their system back in the NES/SNES days and... well they deserve to not have any 3rd party games. Sony just had to come along and not act like a massive cunt to everyone else (something that shouldn`t be difficult for anyone) and that alone made them a way better choice for 3rd parties than Nintendo.

I don't think third parties are vindictive like this. Third parties will put titles on the Switch if they believe it will make them money. They're businesses after all, not people with emotions. Third parties aim to profit first and foremost and if they see opportunity in Nintendo's platform, they will try developing for it regardless of what business relationships were like 20-30 years ago.

Its not a matter of being vindictive. Its a matter of control and Nintendo always wants to be in control. Trying to keep 3rd party devs was just one of the things. They did the same thing to consumers with different console designs and region locking.

Nintendo had to have it their way which included keeping with carts on N64, Mini DVD on Gamecube, then vastly underpowered hardware for Wii and Wii U. If you are 3rd party you have to jump through their hoops to get your game on their system. You have to work with their limitations.

Even to this day with Switch. You want your game on it? You have to work within their mobile hardware. The only concession that might happen is no more region locking and even that isn't a guarantee yet. Everything else is on Nintendo's terms and only on Nintendo's terms. This is why they are losing to MS and Sony.

As for the fans, they are now conditioned to be Nintendo only on their console because Nintendo games are the only thing to be guaranteed on the device. Even that is a iffy proposition with Wii U droughts.



My take:

Most gamers don't have the disposable income to buy every game that comes out. Maybe a game every couple of months, if they're lucky.

Nintendo games tend to be events. On Nintendo consoles, you can buy nothing but Nintendo games for a year and be content. Especially since they are apparently geared towards a younger audience. So games like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed that do well on other consoles suffer on Nintendo consoles.

Plus, since the Wii, Nintendo hardware hasn't been the most powerful. It takes more than just a sharp image to sell on Nintendo consoles.



Ka-pi96 said:
It`s Nintendo`s fault. They`re the ones that alienated 3rd party publishers and pushed them away to Sony/Microsoft in the first place. Hearing about some of the things they demanded from 3rd parties that released on their system back in the NES/SNES days and... well they deserve to not have any 3rd party games. Sony just had to come along and not act like a massive cunt to everyone else (something that shouldn`t be difficult for anyone) and that alone made them a way better choice for 3rd parties than Nintendo.

This, too.



It happened somewhere between 1995 and 1996.

I remember it because when I first read that Project: Reality was going to be cartridge-only, I remember I nearly dropped the magazine I was reading because I was stunned.

This back before I even had internet, and even then I knew that was a huge, huge, huge, huge mistake.

From there it's never recovered or been the same.

The NES and SNES had no problem selling third party content though, many of the best selling games were third party titles whether it was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Contra and Final Fantasy on the NES or Street Fighter II, NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat 2, or Final Fantasy VI on the SNES.



Around the Network

to answer this question you may need a pole


I believe there is a lot of disingenuity in this topic. The fans can't be completely honest. Not all of them. There is emotions like anger and jealousy.

In my opinion, this question is no different than "Why do some games sell better on some consoles and not others?" and the answer is the same: Because some consoles have audiences who buy those games and not others.

If you didn't buy it and you are the audience that should have done so; then it's either you were mad/jealous, or the game didn't look very fun, or you own it on a different system for what ever reason.

Also, just to point out, people have budgets. Nintendo releases a game per month soooo... between WatchDogs and Mario 3DWorld..... yeee.



snyps said:
to answer this question you may need a pole


I believe there is a lot of disingenuity in this topic. The fans can't be completely honest. Not all of them. There is emotions like anger and jealousy.

In my opinion, this question is no different than "Why do some games sell better on some consoles and not others?" and the answer is the same: Because some consoles have audiences who buy those games and not others.

If you didn't buy it and you are the audience that should have done so; then it's either you were mad/jealous, or the game didn't look very fun, or you own it on a different system for what ever reason.

Also, just to point out, people have budgets. We buy a Nintendo game a month soooo... between WatchDogs and Mario 3DWorld..... yeee.

Another reason could be that the hardware on the Nintendo system is so weak that the version of the game on the Nintendo system is subpar like Watchdogs and Darksiders 2.



Back when Nintendo had a stranglehold on the industry, they put in place a bunch of anti-competitive policies in order to keep a monopoly in North America. Basically, third-parties got shafted all the way around.

Nintendo made developers agree to exclusivity just to have a game on a Nintendo system. I don't mean just exclusive games, I mean Nintendo demanded that developers release nothing at all on rival systems for a certain window. They made studios pay them to manufacture the cartridges but controlled production amounts, which ended up with third-party games always being under-shipped and sold-out during key retail periods. They demanded that developers make a working game first, without any agreement, then they would decided if they'd allow it on the system based on their own rules--for example, they might decide your game was too much like something they were releasing, which means you were screwed over something you might have gone into debt to make.

I remember one of the guys from EA saying they'd decided to become a PC developer rather than play by Nintendo's rules. Sega tried Nintendo's approach before opening things up for third-parties and then Playstation came and blew the doors off Nintendo's monopoly. Third-parties jumped ship because of practical reasons, like the CD format, but they weren't exactly sad about the turn of events.

What does that have to do with anything now? Business is business, after all. Executives don't stay at the top by holding grudges above profit margins.

In short, Nintendo created a situation where the third-party environment moved on to somewhere else. Their policies and hardware mistakes resulted in a divided market. I'm sure they thought that just being Nintendo would be enough to crush the competition and the third-parties would crawl back meekly but, obviously, that didn't happen. Moreover, the longer that didn't happen, the more the market fragmented.

At present, in my opinion, publishers are just fine with keeping things the way they are. Instead of releasing on four platforms, with the related increase in marketing, production, and distribution costs, they can release on three platforms with pretty much the same number of sales. There really is no reason for them to try all that hard to expand their existing framework unless it develops on its own.

If the Switch is a big success that steals away consumers from Xbox/Playstation/PC then third-parties will be there. If not, they're fine with ignoring Nintendo, too.

So, ultimately, Nintendo bears the most responsibility for the current situation with third-party developers and publishers.



It's my fault.

Sorry.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

bunchanumbers said:
snyps said:
to answer this question you may need a pole


I believe there is a lot of disingenuity in this topic. The fans can't be completely honest. Not all of them. There is emotions like anger and jealousy.

In my opinion, this question is no different than "Why do some games sell better on some consoles and not others?" and the answer is the same: Because some consoles have audiences who buy those games and not others.

If you didn't buy it and you are the audience that should have done so; then it's either you were mad/jealous, or the game didn't look very fun, or you own it on a different system for what ever reason.

Also, just to point out, people have budgets. We buy a Nintendo game a month soooo... between WatchDogs and Mario 3DWorld..... yeee.

Another reason could be that the hardware on the Nintendo system is so weak that the version of the game on the Nintendo system is subpar like Watchdogs and Darksiders 2.

Yes but those are two examples that, unfortunately, should be reasons to buy it on Nintendo systems. I say this because the touch screen features on those two games were pretty astounding, at least in my opinion.

 

But the weak hardware is certainly a reason for less ports which makes for an audience that only buys Nintendo.