Forums - Website Topics - The Moderator Thread

Threads that would be closed during the days of the ps3/x360 are allowed to run its course, i'm not sure that is because we are running on the idea of any content is better than selective content.
I see threads i made in those days to troll reappear, baiting groups of forum users, attacking specific users by posting what they could have said even if those users didn't.
Using claims without fact checking or only half truths, its easy and if done well is barely noticable as trolling.

It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*



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kirby007 said:

Threads that would be closed during the days of the ps3/x360 are allowed to run its course, i'm not sure that is because we are running on the idea of any content is better than selective content.
I see threads i made in those days to troll reappear, baiting groups of forum users, attacking specific users by posting what they could have said even if those users didn't.
Using claims without fact checking or only half truths, its easy and if done well is barely noticable as trolling.

It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*

The way moderation is handled in general certainly favors stealth and therefore doubly punishes people who are honest about it.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

kirby007 said:

Threads that would be closed during the days of the ps3/x360 are allowed to run its course, i'm not sure that is because we are running on the idea of any content is better than selective content.
I see threads i made in those days to troll reappear, baiting groups of forum users, attacking specific users by posting what they could have said even if those users didn't.
Using claims without fact checking or only half truths, its easy and if done well is barely noticable as trolling.

It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*

I'm only going to tackle this because I am honestly at that point with posts like this (and Rol's). 

Yes, your history plays a role in you being moderated (this isn't anything new). If you have a history of similar behavior, it will usually land you in trouble if it is obvious that you have not changed. Many people improve, others do not. In the case of Sales, he's been given many, many, many chances and yet, continues to act in a way that is not productive to a thread and that is where his problems are. I won't go over my history of discussion with him because that is his business,  but that's where we are.

That said, I agree that we need to make adjustments (though not for Sales's moderation, but definitely including cracking down on Backseat Moderating). I often stay quiet because I do not need to engage in every one of these types of posts, but I will not allow the mod team to continue to be attacked every time someone disagrees with a moderation. No previous team put up with it (Kantor, Miguel, and Smeags all locked threads like these for very much the same reason). But, even if they hadn't, it wouldn't matter. Not everyone agrees with even having a Moderator Thread, and many sites don't have one, but I let it remain because 80-90% of the time, we get critical feedback that we can work with. Other times? Needless chaos.

Now, sure, the very core of this thread invites backseat moderating, but that's one of its glaring flaws. Previous mod threads, again, were locked based in part on this flaw and there's really no reason to keep this one open when it leads to the exact same result. 

But, it's 2020, and I have tools at my disposal that other Head Mods did not during their tenor. Instead of taking it away from everyone (at least right now), I'm just going to start dealing with these things on a case-by-case basis. Thread Bans will be handed down for a duration, and if it is something you keep doing even after you're allowed to return, it will become permanent. I've thought of alternatives, but frankly, staff should not have to always be concerned with each and every move they make. Also, in the OP of this thread, it states...

If you have an issue with a moderation issued to another user, the best, most efficient way to get a complete answer is to ask the moderator who issued said ban. Again, it is highly recommended that you PM the moderator in question for the quickest answer.

It is highly probable that I would have discussed this with you in a PM, because just being curious or wanting answers is reasonable and I'm for it. But, it's not going to work in this fashion. Perhaps you will take issue with this and that's fine, but if you want to express reasonable criticism, I will continue to allow it. I just won't see the mod team taking excessive criticism anymore. 

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 10 June 2020

                                                                                                             

You completely missed my point, i said i understand why he is banned and agreed with it.. but i was more concerned with the original cause of bait and borderline trolling that seems to pop up with the new gen



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
You completely missed my point, i said i understand why he is banned and agreed with it.. but i was more concerned with the original cause of bait and borderline trolling that seems to pop up with the new gen

Fair enough (in your case). Perhaps I misunderstood you based on the latter portion of this...

*It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*



                                                                                                             

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CGI-Quality said:
kirby007 said:
You completely missed my point, i said i understand why he is banned and agreed with it.. but i was more concerned with the original cause of bait and borderline trolling that seems to pop up with the new gen

Fair enough (in your case). Perhaps I misunderstood you based on the latter portion of this...

*It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*

I could have left the roll eyes out, but its easy to see his history and add another easy ban ( even if its more then justified ) vs seeing what is the cause of his reaction



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
CGI-Quality said:

Fair enough (in your case). Perhaps I misunderstood you based on the latter portion of this...

*It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*

I could have left the roll eyes out, but its easy to see his history and add another easy ban ( even if its more then justified ) vs seeing what is the cause of his reaction

Since that is your stance, yes, I agree and I apologize for including your post in my original post. 



                                                                                                             

RolStoppable said:
kirby007 said:

Threads that would be closed during the days of the ps3/x360 are allowed to run its course, i'm not sure that is because we are running on the idea of any content is better than selective content.
I see threads i made in those days to troll reappear, baiting groups of forum users, attacking specific users by posting what they could have said even if those users didn't.
Using claims without fact checking or only half truths, its easy and if done well is barely noticable as trolling.

It invites users as sales to take the bait and countertroll and sales is obvious a bad guy due to his history *rolls eyes*

The way moderation is handled in general certainly favors stealth and therefore doubly punishes people who are honest about it.

Isn't something that is done stealthily by definition less likely to be caught?  



JWeinCom said:
RolStoppable said:

The way moderation is handled in general certainly favors stealth and therefore doubly punishes people who are honest about it.

Isn't something that is done stealthily by definition less likely to be caught?  

Indeed.

But the thing is that this community is small enough that all the more active users can be known by the mod team, so pattern recognition isn't an impossible task. On top of that you only have to monitor a small percentage of those active users because these forums have been curated for over a decade, so that's at most 10-20 people to keep an eye on, because it's usually the same few users who are at the center of the most problematic threads (just about anything that concerns console wars and therefore has a clear vs. mentality).

There's also a relationship between stealth trolling and flaming, and backseat moderating. The latter commonly occurs when reports seemingly don't work, so users begin to take it in their own hands. Since stealth actions are less likely to be moderated, the likelihood of backseat moderating increases. Should the mod team take the stance that they need to crack down on backseat moderating, they are first and foremost battling an effect instead of the cause, so the overall level of tension will hardly decrease because the root of it remains. It's certainly easier to go after obvious violations, but that's not where the job should end, simply because over time people adapt to a ruleset and figure out ways to get digs in, be it against console and games, or other users.

...

As for @CGI-Quality 's long post, I don't care much about sales2099's moderation, so I didn't pursue the quickest way to get an answer. There was no urgency and I could wait.

Putting potential thread bans in the room is okay, I suppose, but it's so vaguely defined how much would be too much that it isn't clear where the line is. Causing the mod team needless grief can mean a lot of things and is up to interpretation. On average this thread deals with problems that span multiple posts about once to twice a month, so it's not like the mod team is under constant pressure to explain themselves. You guys can't be doing that much wrong when at times this thread is dead for weeks.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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