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Forums - Politics - FBI Released Proof of Russian DNC Hacking - US expels 35 Russian diplomats & Sanctioned Two Compounds

loy310 said:

Maybe russians gave it to americans and then the americans to Wiki.....

Maybe, but they've claimed it came from DNC insiders who were disgusted by the process.



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Soundwave said:

 

There's this book which is required reading apparently by Russian military and political higher ups that gives a great deal of insight on things:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

The book written in 1997 outlines some interesting Russia objectives namely:

1.) The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe. (Brexit - Check)

2.) Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "“Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia (Annexation of Crimea in Ukraine, Step One)

3.) Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]   

(Supporting a divisive candidate like Trump that played up racial and isolationist rhetoric -- check mate). 

Seems like they eased off on the concept of making China an enemy, rather placating them/making them an ally of sorts, but a lot of the other stuff written in 1997 is almost freakishly dead on. 

These three points are actually stunning in their accuracy nearly 20 years before hand. There's also the Russian professor/former KGB agent who predicted due to internal instability, the United States would eventually break apart into this:

 

Russia might be playing a pretty impressive long game here, the ultimate revenge for the break up of the Soviet Union. We tend to think this was ages ago, but it was really only 25 years ago ... not that long in geopolitical terms. 

The map looks like an improvement to me.

I mean, i'm sure things will eventually walk in that direction if the outdated electoral system isnt changed. Also, its clear different parts of the US have different cultural and religious values.

There is a reason why theres so many countries in europe. So, it's not a surprising development if it came to pass.

I really wonder if Texas would become a republic though... the poor guys on Austin...



Someone may have hacked the US but there is no proof that the Russians are the source. It could have been done by any public or private organization in the world.



I would be more worried about the new rights this new administration is going to take away from you, than what government is claiming about what other countries are doing. The War on Terror has been a real blow to civil rights for the US and the EU; all in the name of "protecting the public", while in reality, it may all be for protecting profits and special interests.



pokoko said:
Azuren said:

If another country exposes corruption, then I honestly don't give a fuck about the semantics about what laws are broken. 

 

"They illegally hacked our servers!"

 

"... aaaaand exposed extreme corruption in the process. Maybe they need a medal, not a reprimand."

That is not semantics at all.  "The ends justifies the means" never works because it's never fair.  Who is going to decide that case-by-case interpretation of the law?  What is your criteria for when it's okay to ignore legality?  That's the whole reason why we made entrapment illegal in the United States.  

The idea of giving people medals when they break the law if they can prove someone else broke the law first would just lead to anarchy.  Would you mind if someone broke into your house because they thought you might have have something illegal there?  

It's not fair that their corrupt actions were exposed? 

 

Feel free to keep defending it. In the end, you're defending their corruption. If they were never guilty of shitty practices, then I my empathize with them. Instead, they were exposed to be shitbags, so fuck'em.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

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Nem said:
Soundwave said:

 

There's this book which is required reading apparently by Russian military and political higher ups that gives a great deal of insight on things:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

The book written in 1997 outlines some interesting Russia objectives namely:

1.) The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe. (Brexit - Check)

2.) Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "“Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia (Annexation of Crimea in Ukraine, Step One)

3.) Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]   

(Supporting a divisive candidate like Trump that played up racial and isolationist rhetoric -- check mate). 

Seems like they eased off on the concept of making China an enemy, rather placating them/making them an ally of sorts, but a lot of the other stuff written in 1997 is almost freakishly dead on. 

These three points are actually stunning in their accuracy nearly 20 years before hand. There's also the Russian professor/former KGB agent who predicted due to internal instability, the United States would eventually break apart into this:

 

Russia might be playing a pretty impressive long game here, the ultimate revenge for the break up of the Soviet Union. We tend to think this was ages ago, but it was really only 25 years ago ... not that long in geopolitical terms. 

The map looks like an improvement to me.

I mean, i'm sure things will eventually walk in that direction if the outdated electoral system isnt changed. Also, its clear different parts of the US have different cultural and religious values.

There is a reason why theres so many countries in europe. So, it's not a surprising development if it came to pass.

I really wonder if Texas would become a republic though... the poor guys on Austin...

By poor guys in Austin, are you referring to the native Austinites with somewhat liberal ideals, or the Californian transplants that are ruining literally everything here?

 

And for the record, the "Texas Republic" would come to own Mexico, not the other way around. The rednecks here are armed to the teeth and would love to wipe out the cartel (or try) to annex Mexico. There's also enough Mexicans here to want that, as well as enough Mexicans in Mexico who want their country to be freed from druglords. 



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

I think honestly Russia has something on Trump. Some kind of incriminating video/audio and/or have boxed him via his business dealings in Russia somehow. This may be why he was so reluctant to release his taxes, because they may show huge ties to Russian interests for one.

So they are going to blackmail him for the duration of his term.



More politics, more polarization of the nation, and more reason for the next four years to be dogged with issues.

At least it's gotten congress to generally agree on something. Good on you McCain and Graham



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

Azuren said:
Nem said:

The map looks like an improvement to me.

I mean, i'm sure things will eventually walk in that direction if the outdated electoral system isnt changed. Also, its clear different parts of the US have different cultural and religious values.

There is a reason why theres so many countries in europe. So, it's not a surprising development if it came to pass.

I really wonder if Texas would become a republic though... the poor guys on Austin...

By poor guys in Austin, are you referring to the native Austinites with somewhat liberal ideals, or the Californian transplants that are ruining literally everything here?

 

And for the record, the "Texas Republic" would come to own Mexico, not the other way around. The rednecks here are armed to the teeth and would love to wipe out the cartel (or try) to annex Mexico. There's also enough Mexicans here to want that, as well as enough Mexicans in Mexico who want their country to be freed from druglords. 

I too dont belive México will own or be of inflence on a "Texan Republic", that could happend only if for some reason they seek help from the mexican military and the government aproves that... but is really very difficult that the Mexican goverment (or the mexican people) wanted to involve in something like that)

but I dont think the "Texan Republic" could annex México just because there a lot of "rednecks" with guns and even less just for wiping out the cartels (something I find very dificult for this texan republic to do... for starters for this to happend you need to wipe out curruption first), and to make things worse is not like defeating them could give another contry a free pass to annex territory they are not the major force, they are just drug lords and criminals and not the owners of the country... the goverment is and to defeat the goverment you have to defeat the military and the people who loves their country not the drug lords (who pays their taxes to the ruling class not only in México, but to the goverments of the countries where they sell their drugs) 

--

on topic, well this is the kind of thing that divide people, some people thinks the important is the corruption that this "hacks" shows and other go with "the russian dont have the rigth to manipulate the elecctions", so the people fight over who is more right or more wrong and not about the real problem

but the thing is that both are wrong doings, yeah the russian dont have to enter in this (but I dont belive it was the russian, I see this more like a political thing to distract people from the problem) but is more importan i believe to investigate in this corruptions case

so they have to find the persons behind the attack (as I said, I dont belive it was the russian or Putin, it's a weak case, leting the mighty USA be a target of that without knowing it before hand? is hard to belive) and at the same time enforce law with the people who was exposed as corrupted 

so i hope the USA people dont let the corrupts get away with this falling with the distraction and I that they find the reals agresors (but I see more that they have to face law for hacking or stealing more than for changiin the election)



Azuren said:
pokoko said:

That is not semantics at all.  "The ends justifies the means" never works because it's never fair.  Who is going to decide that case-by-case interpretation of the law?  What is your criteria for when it's okay to ignore legality?  That's the whole reason why we made entrapment illegal in the United States.  

The idea of giving people medals when they break the law if they can prove someone else broke the law first would just lead to anarchy.  Would you mind if someone broke into your house because they thought you might have have something illegal there?  

It's not fair that their corrupt actions were exposed? 

 

Feel free to keep defending it. In the end, you're defending their corruption. If they were never guilty of shitty practices, then I my empathize with them. Instead, they were exposed to be shitbags, so fuck'em.

What the fuck are you talking about?  Don't make up shit like that in a civil discussion.  Just don't do it.  That kind of garbage is uncalled for.

I am not defending what happened at the DNC at all.  In no way shape or form did I say anything like that whatsoever.  Why would I even defend that when I would take Sanders over Clinton and refused to vote for her (or Trump)?  That makes no damn sense.  Personally, I think a lot more needs to be done to address the problem with political corruption and those involved need to be freaking ruined.  What I'm saying now, however, has absolutely nothing to do with that.  Do you really, honestly not understand what I said or are you just trying to do some party-line bullshit?

According to our justice system, if you break the law while you are trying to prove that someone else broke the law then you are still responsible for breaking the law.  Period.  Do you understand that?

What you are saying is that you don't believe breaking and entering, search and seizure, or entrapment should be illegal as long as someone says they are searching for evidence of something nefarious.  It's fine if you want to live in a place like that but that is not how our justice system works.  That would be chaos and open the door to some scary abuse.

As someone who despises both parties, I don't give a damn who it affected this time or who it did not.  Can you honestly say the same?