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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

I just looked up the numbers and FOX has twice as many viewers as MSNBC and CNN combined primetime! Looking at this clickbait article I can see why people are forced to move away from the MSM.

"Gamers are dead" comes to mind...

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/scoreboard-thursday-december-1/312995



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No excuses liberals. You just want your convicted felons and illegal immigrants to keep voting illegally for you.



Also, since republicans control everything, this should be one of the very first laws they pass. Nothing unfair about it. We can get more accurate votes this way.



The challenge I see, even here reading this thread, is people like the idea that they have a firm grasp on reality and how the world works.

It is hard to be introspective, to admit you may be wrong or that another view has more merit. We treat this as a form of weakness. I see this in discourse all the time, the instinct to attack the other, to divide among ideological tribes and "defeat" opposing view points.

Objectivity is very difficult to pull off, so I see some people creating false equivalence in desire to appear neutral. Sometimes one side is wrong on an issue, but we put more stock in feelings and worldviews than we do on facts or evidence.

I'm not going to say I'm above this. I try to understand, as best as I can, why I have certain inset bias through experiences in my life. See complexity of an issue and weigh various views. The critical point is trying to avoid the mentality that being right or "winning" is the goal. The goal is to expand knowledge base and gain a more complete picture on issues.

Unfortunately, with what I see on social media outlets, I can say this entrenchment of ideas seems to be deepening to the point that we simply live in different realities making even basic discussion a challenge.



SpokenTruth said:
FunFan said:

I know is a bit of a wall of text, but at least make an effort to read it all and the source. Here, I'll paste again a part you obviously missed:

 - Real ID Act (2005):

It made verification of immigration status a requirement for IDs such as the drivers license, but only 24 states and territories follow it. Some of these states alleged to comply but still continued issuing drivers licenses and state ID cards to illegal aliens and non-citizen short-term visitors. 

12 states plus DC issue non-citizen DL's and all of them have markers on them indicating they are not for federal use, identification or are for driving only.

 

 

You get the point.

This only proves that the states themselves are not at fault in these types of frauds, not that they don't happen.

 

Proof that it has happened in the past: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/

And an expert take on the matter in easy to understand terms (watch until the end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSZsSwOrKk&t=1s



“Simple minds have always confused great honesty with great rudeness.” - Sherlock Holmes, Elementary (2013).

"Did you guys expected some actual rational fact-based reasoning? ...you should already know I'm all about BS and fraudulence." - FunFan, VGchartz (2016)

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I've given up expecting facts to come out of politics.

Both sides just believe what they want to believe in the internet era. Is this really any worse than Hilary Clinton repeatedly lying about the gender wage gap to try and scare women into voting for her?



SpokenTruth said:

Of course it happens.  I never said otherwise.  What I debunked was the idea that 3 million illegal immigrants voted and that non-citizens can use special driver's licenses to register and vote.   Small pockets of voter fraud (from all parties) happens.  But this notion that it's only for the Democratic party, that 3 million voted for Clinton or that illegals can get a DL and then vote is spread by websites with an agenda or people that don't like researching what they share on the Internet. 

You didn't debunked anything. In any case you simply put the number into question and to be honest the number was in question way before you came. Also no one mentioned anything about SPECIAL driver licenses or IDs to register and vote. What I mentioned is that some states give drivers llicenses to Inmigrants, I never claimed that these could be used to vote. Go back, read my original post, I didn't made such claim. But if you read the source I provided you would know why it was important to mention this facts. As it points out how these systems could be exploited. READ.



“Simple minds have always confused great honesty with great rudeness.” - Sherlock Holmes, Elementary (2013).

"Did you guys expected some actual rational fact-based reasoning? ...you should already know I'm all about BS and fraudulence." - FunFan, VGchartz (2016)

Snoopy said:

 

 

No excuses liberals. You just want your convicted felons and illegal immigrants to keep voting illegally for you.

The Indian voter ID card is a national ID. Republicans in the US are against national ID. Democrats are for a natonal ID. Stupid right wing memes confuse the opposition to voter ID laws. There's oppositions because Republicans enact laws that make certain forms of ID "not good enough" to vote. Because those "certain types of ID" are used mostly by minority groups and minority groups typically vote Democrat. There's not opposition because "we don't think people should identify themselves to vote". By all means, identify yourself. It's literally in the Democratic platform to expand the kinds of acceptable forms of ID to vote. Republicans want to restrict acceptable forms of ID, hence the "opposition" to voter ID laws, in that regard. A singular, national ID would ruin those laws that are advantageous to Republicans. They fear higher voter turnout:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/gops-fear-higher-voter-turnout/

Hence why they implement laws that disproportionately affect those that typically don't vote Republican 

Opposition to voter ID law isn't "we don't want people to have to identify". The opposition is "we don't think it's right that only this form is acceptable". It's not a complicated issue. 



BMaker11 said:
Snoopy said:

 

 

No excuses liberals. You just want your convicted felons and illegal immigrants to keep voting illegally for you.

The Indian voter ID card is a national ID. Republicans in the US are against national ID. Democrats are for a natonal ID. Stupid right wing memes confuse the opposition to voter ID laws. There's oppositions because Republicans enact laws that make certain forms of ID "not good enough" to vote. Because those "certain types of ID" are used mostly by minority groups and minority groups typically vote Democrat. There's not opposition because "we don't think people should identify themselves to vote". By all means, identify yourself. It's literally in the Democratic platform to expand the kinds of acceptable forms of ID to vote. Republicans want to restrict acceptable forms of ID, hence the "opposition" to voter ID laws, in that regard. A singular, national ID would ruin those laws that are advantageous to Republicans. They fear higher voter turnout:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/gops-fear-higher-voter-turnout/

Hence why they implement laws that disproportionately affect those that typically don't vote Republican 

Opposition to voter ID law isn't "we don't want people to have to identify". The opposition is "we don't think it's right that only this form is acceptable". It's not a complicated issue. 

Wow... each time i learn something new about how the US is run the more impressed i am. The US is screwed. Theres not gonna be any progress with those atitudes. National ID's eliminate alot of bureocracy.



Augen said:
The challenge I see, even here reading this thread, is people like the idea that they have a firm grasp on reality and how the world works.

It is hard to be introspective, to admit you may be wrong or that another view has more merit. We treat this as a form of weakness. I see this in discourse all the time, the instinct to attack the other, to divide among ideological tribes and "defeat" opposing view points.

Objectivity is very difficult to pull off, so I see some people creating false equivalence in desire to appear neutral. Sometimes one side is wrong on an issue, but we put more stock in feelings and worldviews than we do on facts or evidence.

I'm not going to say I'm above this. I try to understand, as best as I can, why I have certain inset bias through experiences in my life. See complexity of an issue and weigh various views. The critical point is trying to avoid the mentality that being right or "winning" is the goal. The goal is to expand knowledge base and gain a more complete picture on issues.

Unfortunately, with what I see on social media outlets, I can say this entrenchment of ideas seems to be deepening to the point that we simply live in different realities making even basic discussion a challenge.

Keeping an open mind is very good in order to search knowledge. But if you are indeed trying to understand reality, you know that there are inescapable facts. 

This reminds me of a recent debate about religion. Open-mindedness is what you use when trying to understand someone, but if their view isn't validated, you can't just keep this neutral state like nothing happened. You have to draw conclusions. There is no middle ground for everything.

I'm not sure wich media you refer to, but the comedy news shows are very much in-the ball. More than the actual information networks.