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Forums - Sony - PSX, an example on why Sony is winning this generation

Soundwave on 05 December 2016
thismeintiel said:
RolStoppable said:
The OP is too much about arranging data points to fit a conclusion. At its most basic level, the OP is about as pointless as writing the same thing about the 3DS. When the competition has committed so many suicidal mistakes in either case, then the victory is more a matter of "win by default" instead of a win by effort.

Beyond that, Scorpio is the next generation Xbox, because it doesn't merely feature a refined CPU and GPU, but an entirely new chipset. Nintendo Switch is obviously next generation as well. Therefore Sony has won the home console side of generation 8, no matter what kind of scenarios you come up with for Scorpio and Switch. The PS5 isn't far off either. A 2018 launch should be expected at the current state of things.

That's quite ridiculous to think that Sony just won by default.  To suggest that would make it seem that Sony has been lazy since launch, just getting by on others mistakes, when in fact the exact opposite is the truth.  Good decisions and games, as well as brand strength, have made them the lead console BY FAR for 3 out of 4 gens.  I mean Sony screwed up just as bad last gen as MS did this one, maybe even more, yet they were able to almost fully recover by the end of the gen.  Something MS can't do this gen, regardless of throwing money and firesales at the problem.  They aren't going to match, and then surpass, the PS4 later this gen, like the PS3 did to the 360.  Nor will they even come within ~15M of the lead platform, like the PS3 did, as well.

There's much more to it than just the other guys screwed up.

I don't know if there's *much* more to it than that. Nintendo shat their pants right out of the gate so they weren't even in the picture this gen, and MS made huge errors at launch. 

People have the wrong idea about the console "wars" anyway, they think it's about "scoring points". I actually think it's the opposite, it's about making the fewest mistakes. 

It's like golf, whoever takes the fewest shots to get to the end of the course wins. 

There's also IMO a magnetic draw to a singular format, people contrary to what hardcore video game fans think don't really want like 3 or 4 different formats. 

Do you want 3 or 4 different Blu-Ray/HD disc formats? People just want one "main" choice because they want access to the content they enjoy, they don't want to get stuck with the "wrong" console. 

And I will Sony credit there, they don't make a lot of mistakes. In 20 years in the business the only huge mistakes they've made console-wise was getting arrogant with the PS3 and starting at $600 with that. Other than that, they basically just sit tight on the same formula ... fairly powerful hardware, fairly priced, and let the third party content carry the console and have some solid 1st party exclusives to supplement that, and aim the marketing at older teenagers/20 somethings (because then younger kids want it too, since younger kids always want what older kids are into). 

Wait for your competetion to make mistakes and then seize on that. It's not like they do something otherwordly though, it's not as if someone who buys an XBox One is "OMG! You poor soul, you're missing out on so much". They're fairly close experience wise for most people. Unless you are hyper sensitive about a few Japanese IPs that don't really sell all that great anymore, XBox is mostly the same experience. 



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Oneeee-Chan!!! on 05 December 2016
Soundwave said:

XBox One has 95% of the same really worthwhile games as PS4 does. They got off to a good start by taking advantage of some mistakes on MS' part, but even MS is doing a better job now.

Of "exclusives" I honestly feel like Uncharted/Horizon/GoW and Halo/Gears are the only two that really matter *that* much and even those don't matter as much as they used to. Masses of people aren't purchasing either platform because of things like Knack 2 or something. 

People just want one system that has access to all the third party content they want, the PS4 was cheaper and more powerful and got the leg up on MS.

MS made a grave mistake in banking on Kinect, and that made their system simultatenously $100 more expensive AND less powerful (a no-no for the XBox brand, since people associate it with good hardware). They are recovering from that by making smarter decisions now but I think the damage for this gen has already been done. 

From wikipedia 

 

PS4 games  

Exclusive = 115

Console exclusive = 371

Timed = 37

Multiplatform = 690

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_4_games

 

 

XB1  games 

Exclusive = 30

Console exclusive = 108

Multiplatform = 736

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_games



Safiir on 05 December 2016

To be fair the majority of those exclusives are japanese or niche games. Which still shows the diversity of games for the ps4 but if you're looking solely for AAA games comparison Soundwave is pretty much correct in his estimation.

I'm not saying AAA games are the only thing that matters just that a lot of people regard them as such.



Soundwave on 05 December 2016
Safiir said:

To be fair the majority of those exclusives are japanese or niche games. Which still shows the diversity of games for the ps4 but if you're looking solely for AAA games comparison Soundwave is pretty much correct in his estimation.

I'm not saying AAA games are the only thing that matters just that a lot of people regard them as such.

The experience is generally the same. Unless you are some otaku hardcore gamer who loves JRPGs, which is basically limited to Japan (and Japan doesn't even like consoles anymore), it's not like if someone gets an XBox I'd go "Ohhhhhh man, you're totally screwed". That's just nonsense played up on video game message boards by people who are in their own bubble. 

The experiences and the games that most average PS4 players and most avearge XBox players play I would probably venture to guess are pretty much the same. 

And they pretty much honestly look the same too, unless you take a miscroscope to the screen and count pixels. 

Even during the Super NES/Genesis days, many of the main games were 1st party exclusive and there were some huge differences in third party support, Street Fighter II being exclusive on the SNES for a year would be like GTA VI being exclusive on the XBox or PS for a year, or blood-only in the Genesis version of Mortal Kombat. 



Safiir on 05 December 2016

Yeah, obviously you're not totally screwed if you go xbox one. And if you're only interested in AAA games it will really not matter much which of the two consoles you choose. However there are other factors in play. I won't bother listing them since they've already been beaten to death. But yeah it very much depends on the type of gamer you are and the general perception of the public (arguably the most important thing).



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Turkish on 05 December 2016
Safiir said:

To be fair the majority of those exclusives are japanese or niche games. Which still shows the diversity of games for the ps4 but if you're looking solely for AAA games comparison Soundwave is pretty much correct in his estimation.

I'm not saying AAA games are the only thing that matters just that a lot of people regard them as such.

He is factually incorrect. Look at the list of the post above yours. There are ~4 times(!!) as many exclusives on PS4 as Xbone. 4 times, wow!

I look at all the games I'm gonna get in Q1 2017:

Horizon

Persona 5

Nier Automata

Nioh

Gravity Rush 2

Yakuza 0

KH 2.8

These are all AAA games and none available on Xbox.

The gap is just too big and events like PSX completely makes people forget other platforms even exist.



Egelo on 05 December 2016
Nautilus said:

 

You couldnt be more wrong.The Switch seems like to be correcting all wrongs that Nintendo did with the Wii U, from marketing to game droughts.Not only that, but saying that the Switch will be Wii U all over again, with everything pointing the other way around(developers praising the machine, gamers response to the reveal being very positive, looking to have a great first year and so on).One thing is to be pessimist about it, other thing is just hating on it.

And you simply didnt understand what I meant.Winning a generation dosent mean that a multiplatform game cant sell well on the other platforms, or that people wont be interested in other systems.I mean, if that were true, XOne wouldnt be getting any support now, since the PS4 is clearly outselling it, and it wouldnt be doing so well in the US right now.As long as the developer can get a profit out of the port, it will port its games to other systems.And if the Switch manages to do just that, it will receives games.It may not receive all games, but it will receive some, and can very well compensate the rest with first party support.And by consequence, it will improve its chances to sell more units.Winning the generation dosent cancel the fact that other systems cant sell well.And, for all we know, The Switch may outsell the pS4 in the long run.Even Scorpio can do that.Its unlikely, but not impossible.

Im being realistic not hatefull.

U had decent reaction and 3rd party devs suported it and talked nice (its called pr) but then it released 3rd party games sales tanked and they ran for the hills.  You and I both know nintendo fans wont be buying 3rd party games in large numbers.   These companys will not be wasting time and money suppporting Switch just casue as year earlier they talked nice about it.  We just seen exactly how this song and dance goes.

I get what you mean.  Using xbox who always had decent if not great 3rd party sales to prop up nintendos chances shows how false your argument is.  I get itthere is no ninetendo consoel for you to use to support your opinion, non ninty games just dont do well.   Already its NOT getting all games shows its true weakness and eventual downfall, Its already starting at a disadvantage.  Competing with massive install bases of PS4 and x1 will hammer it further.  

Pretty much everyhting about console sales ever shows us that the leading console wins, it is 100% impossible for Switch to outsale the PS4.  Scorpio lol come on MS gave up outselling PS4 long ago, that should tell you everything.  

Sony has this gen i the beg, maybe next oen they can funble, but this one had it winner decided long ago.  



Nautilus on 05 December 2016
Egelo said:
Nautilus said:

You couldnt be more wrong.The Switch seems like to be correcting all wrongs that Nintendo did with the Wii U, from marketing to game droughts.Not only that, but saying that the Switch will be Wii U all over again, with everything pointing the other way around(developers praising the machine, gamers response to the reveal being very positive, looking to have a great first year and so on).One thing is to be pessimist about it, other thing is just hating on it.

And you simply didnt understand what I meant.Winning a generation dosent mean that a multiplatform game cant sell well on the other platforms, or that people wont be interested in other systems.I mean, if that were true, XOne wouldnt be getting any support now, since the PS4 is clearly outselling it, and it wouldnt be doing so well in the US right now.As long as the developer can get a profit out of the port, it will port its games to other systems.And if the Switch manages to do just that, it will receives games.It may not receive all games, but it will receive some, and can very well compensate the rest with first party support.And by consequence, it will improve its chances to sell more units.Winning the generation dosent cancel the fact that other systems cant sell well.And, for all we know, The Switch may outsell the pS4 in the long run.Even Scorpio can do that.Its unlikely, but not impossible.

Im being realistic not hatefull.

U had decent reaction and 3rd party devs suported it and talked nice (its called pr) but then it released 3rd party games sales tanked and they ran for the hills.  You and I both know nintendo fans wont be buying 3rd party games in large numbers.   These companys will not be wasting time and money suppporting Switch just casue as year earlier they talked nice about it.  We just seen exactly how this song and dance goes.

I get what you mean.  Using xbox who always had decent if not great 3rd party sales to prop up nintendos chances shows how false your argument is.  I get itthere is no ninetendo consoel for you to use to support your opinion, non ninty games just dont do well.   Already its NOT getting all games shows its true weakness and eventual downfall, Its already starting at a disadvantage.  Competing with massive install bases of PS4 and x1 will hammer it further.  

Pretty much everyhting about console sales ever shows us that the leading console wins, it is 100% impossible for Switch to outsale the PS4.  Scorpio lol come on MS gave up outselling PS4 long ago, that should tell you everything.  

Sony has this gen i the beg, maybe next oen they can funble, but this one had it winner decided long ago.  

Since when being realistic is saying that something will fail certainly when this something hasnt even been fully revealed?

Its not a matter of third party support on Nintendo selling more than in the other consoles.Its a matter of companies getting a profit out of the ports in the Switch.If that happens, and the effort seems like it will bear fruits, then companies will port.A developer wont say no to cashing in an extra few millions.And if they feel like that is possible on the Switch, they will do it.Take Dark Souls 3.Using Vgchartz numbers only, and not taking digital sales into consideration, DS 3 did .037 on XOne, while the PS4 version outsold it massively, standing at 1.60 million.So why does the XOne version exist?Simply because From Software(Or Bandai Namco in this case), is getting money out of it, and at the same time it makes people happy that it is available in more places.

It wont be different for the Switch.Now wether it outsells the PS4 or not, its a whole different discussion.But in my book, the Switch is a 9 gen console, so it dosent matter that much, as long as the console itself is successful.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Augen on 05 December 2016
Safiir said:

To be fair the majority of those exclusives are japanese or niche games. Which still shows the diversity of games for the ps4 but if you're looking solely for AAA games comparison Soundwave is pretty much correct in his estimation.

I'm not saying AAA games are the only thing that matters just that a lot of people regard them as such.

I can only go by what I care about and those niche games mean as much or more to me than the big multi million sellers do. My most anticipated games right now are Last Guardian and Gravity Rush 2, and I can only get those on PlayStation.

I get other's perference, but Sony makes systems tailored to me so I throw thousands of dollars at them.



Egelo on 05 December 2016
Nautilus said:

Since when being realistic is saying that something will fail certainly when this something hasnt even been fully revealed?

Its not a matter of third party support on Nintendo selling more than in the other consoles.Its a matter of companies getting a profit out of the ports in the Switch.If that happens, and the effort seems like it will bear fruits, then companies will port.A developer wont say no to cashing in an extra few millions.And if they feel like that is possible on the Switch, they will do it.Take Dark Souls 3.Using Vgchartz numbers only, and not taking digital sales into consideration, DS 3 did .037 on XOne, while the PS4 version outsold it massively, standing at 1.60 million.So why does the XOne version exist?Simply because From Software(Or Bandai Namco in this case), is getting money out of it, and at the same time it makes people happy that it is available in more places.

It wont be different for the Switch.Now wether it outsells the PS4 or not, its a whole different discussion.But in my book, the Switch is a 9 gen console, so it dosent matter that much, as long as the console itself is successful.

Becasue its already failing by not getting all the games, its already lacking power to run what they other two will be running.    

You are repeating the same rethetic that the nintendo hopefull said about wiiu.  Using the exact same arguemnts.   And still you are using xbox to defend nintendos console chances why ? why not use the wiiu.  Well we both know why.  

What ever gen its quality is that of or less then the PS4/X1, so its directly competing with them.  It will lose that battle.  If GC/U numbers are succesfull then yes it may just be successfull.