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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is looking interesting again for the first time in almost a decade..

Lonely_Dolphin on 11 December 2016
Cloudman said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

For most of what you said just read my response to Goodnightmoon. Tl;dr, playing a game gives you no additional credibility, I certainly know how Color Splash plays just as much as you do, and of course most people who bought the game like it, cause who buys a game they know they won't like? That's kinda why the sales are so low. If every Paper Mario fan did buy the game then you can bet the vast majority of Color Splash owners would dislike it.

"Nothing actually from the game? Baseless opinions?" Where do you think the idea that it's essentially Sticker Star 2 even came from then? Do you honestly believe I know nothing about the game, that I'm not buying it because... I'm stupid or something? If so then I will not be able to take you seriously and will just continue to let the sales do the talking!

That depends. If you played the game, then your opinion will have some weight to it, depending on how much you played. However, if you're just basing it on 1st impressions and trailers, then no, your opinion will not have the same weight as someone who has. That's like saying someone who got the basic idea of a game has the same credability as a reviewer, whose job it is to give a well informed opinion on it. No one would take the 1st person seriously. Most people who bought it seemed to have liked it indeed, since they have played it and know how it is. How can you know if you'll like a game or not if you haven't played it, after all. Saying the vast majority would dislike it is just a what if, as the overall reception is positive. It could have scewed the other way for all we know.

Well, yes, if you haven't played the game, then you don't really know much about it. Until you do, you just won't know how good, or perhaps not good, it is. And going with sales is a flawed way of looking at it, as well as just using something else to base your opinion on, rather than on your own. If we go with that logic, then I guess Sonic 2006 must be a really excellent game, or that games like Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Xenoblade Chronicles X sucked then. Or for that matter, Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star must be better games than the Thousand Year Door. Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric sold more than Color Splash, which I guess means it's a better game that CS.

 

Once again, genre, content, game mechanics, etc. do not magically change when you play a game. I'm not gonna continue futher if you can't understand this. This is borderline insanity what you're saying here, telling me that I've never ever known what a game is like prior to playing it even though I always have (when I actually do my research anyway), that we never knew Mario Kart 8 features anti-gravity, that Splatoon has that awesome Squid-Kid ability, that Smash has a crapton of characters, etc. I'm sorry but you have to be insane to say we didn't know that stuff prior to playing those game. 



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KLAMarine on 11 December 2016

I'm certainly looking forward to the Switch. It looks like a very versatile approach to gaming.



Cloudman on 11 December 2016
Einsam_Delphin said:
Cloudman said:

That depends. If you played the game, then your opinion will have some weight to it, depending on how much you played. However, if you're just basing it on 1st impressions and trailers, then no, your opinion will not have the same weight as someone who has. That's like saying someone who got the basic idea of a game has the same credability as a reviewer, whose job it is to give a well informed opinion on it. No one would take the 1st person seriously. Most people who bought it seemed to have liked it indeed, since they have played it and know how it is. How can you know if you'll like a game or not if you haven't played it, after all. Saying the vast majority would dislike it is just a what if, as the overall reception is positive. It could have scewed the other way for all we know.

Well, yes, if you haven't played the game, then you don't really know much about it. Until you do, you just won't know how good, or perhaps not good, it is. And going with sales is a flawed way of looking at it, as well as just using something else to base your opinion on, rather than on your own. If we go with that logic, then I guess Sonic 2006 must be a really excellent game, or that games like Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Xenoblade Chronicles X sucked then. Or for that matter, Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star must be better games than the Thousand Year Door. Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric sold more than Color Splash, which I guess means it's a better game that CS.

 

Once again, genre, content, game mechanics, etc. do not magically change when you play a game. I'm not gonna continue futher if you can't understand this. This is borderline insanity what you're saying here, telling me that I've never ever known what a game is like prior to playing it even though I always have (when I actually do my research anyway), that we never knew Mario Kart 8 features anti-gravity, that Splatoon has that awesome Squid-Kid ability, that Smash has a crapton of characters, etc. I'm sorry but you have to be insane to say we didn't know that stuff prior to playing those game. 

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in this case. Not everything can be summarized so simply like that. That would like saying Color Splash is about battling enemies, and coloring things in the world, or in Zelda, you fight monsters with your swords and go adventuring (which is a very vague comment anyways), or in RPGs, you battle monsters and gain levels. That just doesn't do the whole game justice. Games like RPGs are also about the adventure and all the lil bits you see when playing it. You're not going to get any of that without playing the game, and Color Splash too has a big interesting world filled with many excellent bits and moments that you just can't see from 1st impressions. So, again, you're not going to get it unless you play it for yourself. And, don't go youtubing or googling any of it. You'd just end up spoiling all the good parts of the game, and just doing it a disservice.



 

              

Dance my pretties!

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NATO on 11 December 2016

I don't know, for me it isn't really ever about the actual hardware for Nintendo, rather the software and thus far I haven't seen anything that makes me want to go out and buy the console, and it's only 3 months away from a release.

That to me is worrying.



Lonely_Dolphin on 11 December 2016
Cloudman said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

 

Once again, genre, content, game mechanics, etc. do not magically change when you play a game. I'm not gonna continue futher if you can't understand this. This is borderline insanity what you're saying here, telling me that I've never ever known what a game is like prior to playing it even though I always have (when I actually do my research anyway), that we never knew Mario Kart 8 features anti-gravity, that Splatoon has that awesome Squid-Kid ability, that Smash has a crapton of characters, etc. I'm sorry but you have to be insane to say we didn't know that stuff prior to playing those game. 

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in this case. Not everything can be summarized so simply like that. That would like saying Color Splash is about battling enemies, and coloring things in the world, or in Zelda, you fight monsters with your swords and go adventuring (which is a very vague comment anyways), or in RPGs, you battle monsters and gain levels. That just doesn't do the whole game justice. Games like RPGs are also about the adventure and all the lil bits you see when playing it. You're not going to get any of that without playing the game, and Color Splash too has a big interesting world filled with many excellent bits and moments that you just can't see from 1st impressions. So, again, you're not going to get it unless you play it for yourself. And, don't go youtubing or googling any of it. You'd just end up spoiling all the good parts of the game, and just doing it a disservice.

 

Most of your post has nothing to do with what I'm getting at as you're confusing a few details I pointed out as entire game summarys. Now are you seriously denying that genre, content, game mechanics, etc. do not magically change when you play a game? That everyone who doesn't like Color Splash just doesn't know better, really? That's mainly what I want to know here, but eh I'm bored so I'll wall of text anyway. :L

Spoilers or not, you can also be completely informed on story and exploration without buying the game as those wont magically change either. However it is easily possible to avoid spoilers and still know how the game plays. I do it all the time, most recently with Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Those games play exactly as my research described, but I couldn't tell you what happens at the end of Revelations or what strategys it's chapters will require because I have no idea.

Of course, whether you spoil yourself or not really has no impact on the games quality, only your personal enjoyment maybe. Certainly would never be the difference between a good and bad game so this is pretty moot. For instance I completely spoiled TTYD for myself knowing literally everything before playing it, but I still find it to be amazing. It's actually because I decided not to fully inform myself that I bought Sticker Star, so yeah, it's definitely better to actually know what you're buying before buying it, rather than blindly buying games at random like you're implying. Gamers can be pretty smart, and we've wisened up since Sticker Star, hence the sales of Color Splash. Your defense of the sales by bringing up other games just doesn't work.

Simply put, different games, different reasons and circumstances for their sales performance. Paper Mario is a long established series that has consistently sold millions, well until now anyway. The cause of Color Splash bombing is certainly not because of a lack of advertising and promotion, that the game wasn't even fully localized, that the game's style/genre just isn't widely appealing (proven by predecessors), that the game is a new IP without precedent or anything like that. Of course the Wii U's low installbase is a factor, but that hasn't stopped other games from selling well, and a past entry still did well even on the GCN's similarly low base.  The reason for such a drastic sales drop can only be because of the drastic drop in quality. Now you and the small minority who like the game can be in denial over that, but I don't think Nintendo will be. They'll surely understand that the sales mean the game isn't what people wanted, rather than people suddenly became too stupid to understand Paper Mario... hopefully!



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zorg1000 on 11 December 2016
NATO said:
I don't know, for me it isn't really ever about the actual hardware for Nintendo, rather the software and thus far I haven't seen anything that makes me want to go out and buy the console, and it's only 3 months away from a release.

That to me is worrying.

Well considering there is only 1 Nintendo game officially announced for Switch, I would say it is far too early to judge its software lineup.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Cloudman on 12 December 2016
Einsam_Delphin said:
Cloudman said:

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in this case. Not everything can be summarized so simply like that. That would like saying Color Splash is about battling enemies, and coloring things in the world, or in Zelda, you fight monsters with your swords and go adventuring (which is a very vague comment anyways), or in RPGs, you battle monsters and gain levels. That just doesn't do the whole game justice. Games like RPGs are also about the adventure and all the lil bits you see when playing it. You're not going to get any of that without playing the game, and Color Splash too has a big interesting world filled with many excellent bits and moments that you just can't see from 1st impressions. So, again, you're not going to get it unless you play it for yourself. And, don't go youtubing or googling any of it. You'd just end up spoiling all the good parts of the game, and just doing it a disservice.

 

Most of your post has nothing to do with what I'm getting at as you're confusing a few details I pointed out as entire game summarys. Now are you seriously denying that genre, content, game mechanics, etc. do not magically change when you play a game? That everyone who doesn't like Color Splash just doesn't know better, really? That's mainly what I want to know here, but eh I'm bored so I'll wall of text anyway. :L

Spoilers or not, you can also be completely informed on story and exploration without buying the game as those wont magically change either. However it is easily possible to avoid spoilers and still know how the game plays. I do it all the time, most recently with Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Those games play exactly as my research described, but I couldn't tell you what happens at the end of Revelations or what strategys it's chapters will require because I have no idea.

Of course, whether you spoil yourself or not really has no impact on the games quality, only your personal enjoyment maybe. Certainly would never be the difference between a good and bad game so this is pretty moot. For instance I completely spoiled TTYD for myself knowing literally everything before playing it, but I still find it to be amazing. It's actually because I decided not to fully inform myself that I bought Sticker Star, so yeah, it's definitely better to actually know what you're buying before buying it, rather than blindly buying games at random like you're implying. Gamers can be pretty smart, and we've wisened up since Sticker Star, hence the sales of Color Splash. Your defense of the sales by bringing up other games just doesn't work.

Simply put, different games, different reasons and circumstances for their sales performance. Paper Mario is a long established series that has consistently sold millions, well until now anyway. The cause of Color Splash bombing is certainly not because of a lack of advertising and promotion, that the game wasn't even fully localized, that the game's style/genre just isn't widely appealing (proven by predecessors), that the game is a new IP without precedent or anything like that. Of course the Wii U's low installbase is a factor, but that hasn't stopped other games from selling well, and a past entry still did well even on the GCN's similarly low base.  The reason for such a drastic sales drop can only be because of the drastic drop in quality. Now you and the small minority who like the game can be in denial over that, but I don't think Nintendo will be. They'll surely understand that the sales mean the game isn't what people wanted, rather than people suddenly became too stupid to understand Paper Mario... hopefully!

This whole point of this discussion is to refute that just because you know how a previous game plays, that means you know how this game is, which is just incorrect. You're looking at Color Splash like it is Sticker Star, which is just an incorrect way of looking at it. This isn't Sticker Star, and you shouldn't go into it thinking like that, but as a new game. It's that reason why people passed on it, they pre-maturely assumed that instead of giving the game a fair chance. And no, it is not a drastic drop in quality. Otherwise, you are giving Sticker Star way too much credit, and Color Splash not nearly enough.

And yes, all those things can change with a new game, and this one too. Games can be improved upon. They're not just going to release the same game with nothing new done. In terms of genre, Color Splash certainly does challenge the concept of how traditional RPGs usually are, taking the usual 'beat the enemies until they die' concept and adding a sort of puzzle element to it, resulting in some very unique and interesting battles, or just battles that require some trial and error to figure out how to beat the enemies (and this is not with the thing cards either). Though for those who prefer the standard strong boss fight battle, they have some of those too. Content as well is different and quite varying. Almost each level you play through has something new and unique to it, making it feel like you really are in a large world. You start off with a green field, a beach, and caves, but then you also find yourself at a bone digging site, a creepy mansion, traveling with pirates, boarding a run away train, and so on. Game machanics admittedly don't feel much different, since the style has been a staple since Mario RPG, but there are some things that make it different and unique. So simple, yes, the things you listed can be changed when you play a game. I really didn't want to answer this because, you just need to play it to get it.

I don't agree that you can be completely informed on a game just by looking it up. Reading up on how a game plays just isn't the same as playing it yourself. You can get an idea on a game and decide if you think you'll like it, and honestly, pokemon and fire emblem don't really change all that much, as well as story not being a major point in these games. The gameplay in those is the major bulk in those, and they just different games!

Since you spoiled yourself to TTYD and you came to enjoy it, perhaps the same can't be said if you did the same with Color Splash? It may be more appealing than what you initially think, though experiencing the adventure yourself 1st hand is usually the better option.

You don't really refute my point on games and poor sales either. You claim that you base your opinion on Color Splash being a poor game because of poor sales, but then deny that with other games that also sold poorly, or generally poor games that still sold well. That just doesn't help your case. Althought sales can be a good indicator of if a game is good or not, it's not always the case. Sometimes good games... just sell poorly, and vice versa, for different reasons. People likely didn't buy the game because they thought Sticker Star, assuming it was bad as well. Though, me and the minority who played it, really know how it is.



 

              

Dance my pretties!

The Official Art Thread      -      The Official Manga Thread      -      The Official Starbound Thread

asqarkabab on 12 December 2016

Nintendo is back as i see



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

Lonely_Dolphin on 13 December 2016
Cloudman said:

This whole point of this discussion is to refute that just because you know how a previous game plays, that means you know how this game is, which is just incorrect. You're looking at Color Splash like it is Sticker Star, which is just an incorrect way of looking at it. This isn't Sticker Star, and you shouldn't go into it thinking like that, but as a new game. It's that reason why people passed on it, they pre-maturely assumed that instead of giving the game a fair chance. And no, it is not a drastic drop in quality. Otherwise, you are giving Sticker Star way too much credit, and Color Splash not nearly enough.

And yes, all those things can change with a new game, and this one too. Games can be improved upon. They're not just going to release the same game with nothing new done. In terms of genre, Color Splash certainly does challenge the concept of how traditional RPGs usually are, taking the usual 'beat the enemies until they die' concept and adding a sort of puzzle element to it, resulting in some very unique and interesting battles, or just battles that require some trial and error to figure out how to beat the enemies (and this is not with the thing cards either). Though for those who prefer the standard strong boss fight battle, they have some of those too. Content as well is different and quite varying. Almost each level you play through has something new and unique to it, making it feel like you really are in a large world. You start off with a green field, a beach, and caves, but then you also find yourself at a bone digging site, a creepy mansion, traveling with pirates, boarding a run away train, and so on. Game machanics admittedly don't feel much different, since the style has been a staple since Mario RPG, but there are some things that make it different and unique. So simple, yes, the things you listed can be changed when you play a game. I really didn't want to answer this because, you just need to play it to get it.

I don't agree that you can be completely informed on a game just by looking it up. Reading up on how a game plays just isn't the same as playing it yourself. You can get an idea on a game and decide if you think you'll like it, and honestly, pokemon and fire emblem don't really change all that much, as well as story not being a major point in these games. The gameplay in those is the major bulk in those, and they just different games!

Since you spoiled yourself to TTYD and you came to enjoy it, perhaps the same can't be said if you did the same with Color Splash? It may be more appealing than what you initially think, though experiencing the adventure yourself 1st hand is usually the better option.

You don't really refute my point on games and poor sales either. You claim that you base your opinion on Color Splash being a poor game because of poor sales, but then deny that with other games that also sold poorly, or generally poor games that still sold well. That just doesn't help your case. Althought sales can be a good indicator of if a game is good or not, it's not always the case. Sometimes good games... just sell poorly, and vice versa, for different reasons. People likely didn't buy the game because they thought Sticker Star, assuming it was bad as well. Though, me and the minority who played it, really know how it is.

Just because you say so doesn't change the fact that Color Splash's mechanics, gameplay style, progression, content, etc. are a lot like Sticker Stars. I'm looking at Color Splash like it's similar to Sticker Star because Color Splash is similar to Sticker Star. That's not an assumption that's just how it is, unless, again, you're implying the game will magically change when I put the disc in.

I think you're confused again, I don't mean from game to game, I mean within a singular game, there's no change from what you see to what you play. What you see is what you get. What you just described, would that suddenly change when I put the disc in? No? Then how are you gonna say previews/reviews/gameplay/articles/impressions/etc. aren't telling when it's the same type of info as you just gave? I don't need to play it to get it, certainly not just cause you say so, because yet again the game will not magically change. There'll still be pointless monotonous battles with terrible gamepad gimmick, copy-pasted toads everywhere, thing objects, surprise but not really a surprise final boss, and so ons.

"You can get an idea on a game and decide if you think you'll like it" So basically you agree with what I'm getting at here! People have gotten an idea on Color Splash and have decided accordingly, with a few buying it and most skipping it.

I already did spoil Color Splash, but it wouldn't matter eitherway. If the gameplay isn't atleast somewhat enjoyable then I can't enjoy the game at all and would rather just skim through a video walkthrough if I'm really interested in the story.

I've been saying Color Splash is bad since the second it was revealed and you know that. Sales have nothing to do with why I have my opinion, they just reinforce it is all. I also didn't deny anything, like I said, those other games are different games that have different situations and reasons around them, so comparisons without taking such factors into account do not work. It also doesn't matter how other games did, I'm only talking about Color Splash here. I'm not saying sales always represents quality, I'm saying quality is a major reason for Color Splash sales as other reasons don't fit in this scenario. Now you can spin the reasoning however you like, but the bottomline is the game isn't what people wanted and Nintendo should interpret it as such.



Dante9 on 13 December 2016
Kuksenkov said:
I'm usually the most interested in Nintendo, as Microsoft's games do nothing for me and SONY hasn't said anything about Crash Team Racing, Siren, or Twisted Metal getting any second chances.

I care about Smash, Mario Kart, F-Zero, Xenoblade, Pokemon. And usually some of the funniest games to play are made by Nintendo as well.

I really don't care much about hardware unless there's different versions/models such as a slim version. I care about the games and the Japanese third parties have that covered for SONY'S Westernized ass. But Nintendo also has Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Geist, Mario Party, and other franchises that I'd love to see return or get back to form.

They'll always be interesting to me.

Crash Team Racing, Twisted Metal? You really like to cling to the past, don't you? Is this a common theme among Ninty fans? You just want the same stuff you played like 20 years ago, over and over again? You want a nostalgia machine.