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Forums - Nintendo - Emily Rogers: Switch has 4GB of ram in RETAIL units, leaked specs might not be farfetched

curl-6 on 03 November 2016
Miyamotoo said:
curl-6 said:

Your original post was wrong though. Throughout this thread multiple people besides myself have pointed out the flaws in your logic, but you just keep repeating "but modern hardware" and presenting your dreams and speculations as fact.

Nobody will take you seriously when you claim that Switch will run PS4 games in 720p "without noticeable downgrades".

In my last post wrote why my original post wasn't wrong and you keep like acting like I specily said GC GPU and RAM.

People saying their opinions like every other peoples, but there's no any flaws in my logic regardles what I wrote about Switch, actually most of staff I wrote are facts but you are not informed about those staffs (even with a basic knowledge of gaming hardware). Its very possible that Switch will be able to run 3rd party ports just in 720p and with some downgrades, and I gave very logical explanation why is that very possible.

The problem is, your opinion is not backed up by adequate knowledge of the subject, as you have demonstrated of dozens of times throughout this thread. You post emotion, not reason. Feelings, not facts. And when you're called out on it, you just backpedal and contradict yourself, just like you're doing now with "Wii U is GC tech" and "no noticeable downgrades".

See, you seem to think you're getting away with it, but you don't seem to realize that guys like me, potato hamster, oniyide, soundwave, JEMC, svennoj, etc, we know enough about the subject that when you pull stuff out of your arse, we know instantly.



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curl-6 on 03 November 2016
Miyamotoo said:

PS3/X360 that have only around 256MB RAM for games 

Wrong again.

As of 2010, PS3 only reserved 50MB of RAM for the OS, leaving around 462MB available for games. And even before that, the OS was 120MB, still leaving about 392MB for games, not 256. https://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/70mb-of-additional-ram-unlocked-for-ps3-developers/

Xbox 360, on the other hand, had a 32MB OS, leaving 480MB available for games.



Azzanation on 03 November 2016
potato_hamster said:
Azzanation said:

Link me a game that uses more than 4gigs of Vram on current consoles? Most games are developed around 2 to 4gigs of ram in mind not 8gigs. If a PC with less than 3gigs of Vram can run the latest games without issues than the Switch wont have any issues either aslong as the bandwith improves because i will agree that the Bandwith is pretty low however its all rumours for now.

The Switch is also showcasing Skyrim Remastered with no issues *If the trailer is true* than it doesnt need 8gigs like the XB1 or PS4. It doesnt have to be more powerful.

XB1 and PS4 are home entertainment devices that are used for multi tasking. Which is why they need alot more Ram free for the OS. The Switch most likely is a Gameing console only which might have afew Streaming features.

Also for all we know, Nintendo is customsiing the Chipset, it could be using Nvidea's GDDR5X ram instead of GDDR5, We dont actually know except the fact there working with Nvidea on the chipset and Nvidea are very happy with it.

Still your the one using the NES name as an example of what a console can do. So talk about understanding.

4gigs is more than enough to play any current game without issues.

 

You want to talk about understanding? Tell me how much dedicated VRAM the PS4 has. I'll give you a hint: It doesn't have any!

"Link me a game that uses more than 4gigs of Vram on current consoles? " WHY do you not understand why this question is ridiculous? I made it crystal clear. Theses consoles have UNIFIED RAM they do not technically have ANY VRAM, as the graphics card can technically have access to any amount of the UNIFIED RAM as needed. So ANY PS4 or X1 game could be using over 4GB of the UNIFIED RAM for graphics processing purposes, since it is allocated dynamically.

But if you reallly, really want to get dumb about this:The PS4 has 8 GB of GDDR Ram which for PCs is found in graphics card, so in that sense, pretty much all PS4 games use more than 4 gigs of VRAM. Happy? No because it makes no sense to put it in that context and so does your question.

I can't list you a game that definitely uses at least 4 gigs of allocated UNIFIED RAM for graphics processing purposess at any one time since only the developers would ever know this (if they even keep track of it) and they have no reason to divulge such information. It is meaningless. Console developers have access to any and all of the APU and the unified memory the consoles possesses and they use it as they see fit. That's it. They don't have a dedicated graphics card with dedicated VRAM to utilize! You need to let this line of thinking go, you're embarassing yourself. This is not how modern consoles work.

Please go ahead and tell me that if the Switch has the ability to stream/share gameplay while playing (as rumored) that it cannot be considering a "multi-tasking console". This is foolish. From what is rumored, there may be more non-gaming related functionality built into the Switch than is built into the PS4!
And again I used the NES as an example of why the term "entertainment system" as a label for what the PS4 is, and the Switch isn't is meaningless. It's just a dumb label you chose to use to that could easily be used to describe what the Switch is, the same way Nintendo used to to describe what the NES was. Are you forgetting that Nintendo developed a knitting attachment for the NES? I

http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long-lost-nintendo-knitting-machine-would-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

5gigs is allocated for games, and Devs arent using anymore than 4gigs and less to creat games for all systems *PC Included* Its the current gen number of ram required to play any game this gen comfortably. PS4 and XB1 have bloated OS's and i daubt the Switch will fall in that same catagory. The WiiU only needs 1gig of ram for its OS compared to the PS4 and XB1 which need more than 2+gigs.

NES is just a name of a console, it doesnt mean anything to what it is or what it can do. Also a Gaming console like the NES is an entertainment system because gaming is for entertainment. PS and Xbox fall under home entertainment systems because there is alot more to do than just gaming. Now i am not saying the Switch is only going to be for gaming only but compared to there competitors, i highly daubt its going to require a fat OS to run the system. I will guess that the Switch will most likely utlise 500mg to 1gig of ram for its OS *Similar to the WiiU*, if i am right than the system has more than enough Vram to run its games without any issues whats so ever. Lets not get confused with the way PC and consoles run games either. PCs will have system memory that will help while consoles only take from one pool of ram not two. Also consoles split there Ram into two parts, which in the article i linked you will explain. Devs can only access 5gigs of Vram from the PS4 the rest is for the OS. Most if not all PC games dont need any more than 4gigs of Vram.



Azzanation on 03 November 2016
Barkley said:
Azzanation said:

Link me a game that uses more than 4gigs of Vram on current consoles? Most games are developed around 2 to 4gigs of ram in mind not 8gigs. If a PC with less than 3gigs of Vram can run the latest games without issues than the Switch wont have any issues either.

I'm not sure you realise that a game needs both Ram and Vram... you act like, for lack of a better word, normal ram isn't used at all... lol.

Azzanation said:

Even if the Switch uses 1gig for its OS, it still has 3gigs left for gaming and like i stated before, a 1060 or 480 both come in 3gig variants which is more than enough to run any current game at a comfortable level. System memory excluded because thats normaly used for the OS and other operations. 

As someone who is supposedly a PC gamer your lack of technical knowledge is astounding. Sure Ram is only used for the OS and "other operations", that's why Star Citizen for example requires 8gb of it and recommends 16gb of it. Just for a good old chuckle.

You sound confused. Consoles utlise there ram for both OS and Gaming. PS4 uses its Vram for its OS hence why its split into two. Its why Devs can only access 5gigs not the full 8 gigs for games. Google It.

As for Star Citizen, well durr, anyone knows you need a beast of a PC to run a game like that. So the Switch cant run Star Citizen, nice, neither can the PS4 or XB1. Unless they butcher it, and in saying that they can also butcher it for the Switch aswell.

Any game can be optimised for any system depending how much they want to strip. I dont expect the Switch to out power the Xbox or PS, but it can run the same games.



Arkaign on 03 November 2016
Azzanation said:
potato_hamster said:

You want to talk about understanding? Tell me how much dedicated VRAM the PS4 has. I'll give you a hint: It doesn't have any!

"Link me a game that uses more than 4gigs of Vram on current consoles? " WHY do you not understand why this question is ridiculous? I made it crystal clear. Theses consoles have UNIFIED RAM they do not technically have ANY VRAM, as the graphics card can technically have access to any amount of the UNIFIED RAM as needed. So ANY PS4 or X1 game could be using over 4GB of the UNIFIED RAM for graphics processing purposes, since it is allocated dynamically.

But if you reallly, really want to get dumb about this:The PS4 has 8 GB of GDDR Ram which for PCs is found in graphics card, so in that sense, pretty much all PS4 games use more than 4 gigs of VRAM. Happy? No because it makes no sense to put it in that context and so does your question.

I can't list you a game that definitely uses at least 4 gigs of allocated UNIFIED RAM for graphics processing purposess at any one time since only the developers would ever know this (if they even keep track of it) and they have no reason to divulge such information. It is meaningless. Console developers have access to any and all of the APU and the unified memory the consoles possesses and they use it as they see fit. That's it. They don't have a dedicated graphics card with dedicated VRAM to utilize! You need to let this line of thinking go, you're embarassing yourself. This is not how modern consoles work.

Please go ahead and tell me that if the Switch has the ability to stream/share gameplay while playing (as rumored) that it cannot be considering a "multi-tasking console". This is foolish. From what is rumored, there may be more non-gaming related functionality built into the Switch than is built into the PS4!
And again I used the NES as an example of why the term "entertainment system" as a label for what the PS4 is, and the Switch isn't is meaningless. It's just a dumb label you chose to use to that could easily be used to describe what the Switch is, the same way Nintendo used to to describe what the NES was. Are you forgetting that Nintendo developed a knitting attachment for the NES? I

http://kotaku.com/5939210/this-long-lost-nintendo-knitting-machine-would-have-let-you-make-sweaters-with-your-nes

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

5gigs is allocated for games, and Devs arent using anymore than 4gigs and less to creat games for all systems *PC Included* Its the current gen number of ram required to play any game this gen comfortably. PS4 and XB1 have bloated OS's and i daubt the Switch will fall in that same catagory. The WiiU only needs 1gig of ram for its OS compared to the PS4 and XB1 which need more than 2+gigs.

NES is just a name of a console, it doesnt mean anything to what it is or what it can do. Also a Gaming console like the NES is an entertainment system because gaming is for entertainment. PS and Xbox fall under home entertainment systems because there is alot more to do than just gaming. Now i am not saying the Switch is only going to be for gaming only but compared to there competitors, i highly daubt its going to require a fat OS to run the system. I will guess that the Switch will most likely utlise 500mg to 1gig of ram for its OS *Similar to the WiiU*, if i am right than the system has more than enough Vram to run its games without any issues whats so ever. Lets not get confused with the way PC and consoles run games either. PCs will have system memory that will help while consoles only take from one pool of ram not two. Also consoles split there Ram into two parts, which in the article i linked you will explain. Devs can only access 5gigs of Vram from the PS4 the rest is for the OS. Most if not all PC games dont need any more than 4gigs of Vram.

Vram isn't the whole story though. To play something like Battlefield 1, 8GB is the recommended MINIMUM, though you can get by with a 2GB video card on low/medium 1080P settings. 4GB causes the pagefile to get hit really hard, causing hitching. With a console, the OS overhead is much less, but still you'd ideally want ~4GB or so for the game program to run, along with 1-2GB of the unified memory for the video portion (textures etc).

4GB will be limiting, there's no way around it.

Literally everything about the system screams multiple things :

1- Nintendo doesn't really care about competing in the arena of being a platform for major AAA multiplats. They will run worse compared to the 2013 models of PS4/X1 if they even get developers to bother porting much to it. This may be by intention, as the more people buying 1st party games = much more income for Nintendo than if people were simply using it as a multiplat system. 

2- 4GB of ram being the limit DOES probably mean a very lean/simple OS. This is also not really a big negative or anything, but it probably means that they aren't going to try and compete with Sony/MS on the big PSN/XBL ecosystem with sophisticated online multiplayer support. Online experience will probably be about like it is on WiiU.

3- The BoM outlook on this points to a similar recipe to WiiU = pricey for the performance, a fantastic system for 1st party Nintendo titles, will not get anyone to move from PS or Xbox for their mainline gaming IF they are the type to play GTA/Madden/COD/Creed/etc.



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oniyide on 04 November 2016
Miyamotoo said:
oniyide said:

to be fair, 3ds did get that explorers game. and why stop at 3ds? Wii is even a better example that sold better than the other two and STILL didnt get a lot of games that PS360 got

Edit, you just gotta let the guy talk, when he is proven wrong he'll disappear like Zero and the others did when proven wrong.

You realise that Wii had better 3rd party support than Wii U despite Wii is incomparibe less stronger than Wii U!?

For now, everything I said about Switch is proven true.

 

cool...how does that make what I said untrue? I didnt even mention Wii U so i dont know why you brought that up



Miyamotoo on 04 November 2016
curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

In my last post wrote why my original post wasn't wrong and you keep like acting like I specily said GC GPU and RAM.

People saying their opinions like every other peoples, but there's no any flaws in my logic regardles what I wrote about Switch, actually most of staff I wrote are facts but you are not informed about those staffs (even with a basic knowledge of gaming hardware). Its very possible that Switch will be able to run 3rd party ports just in 720p and with some downgrades, and I gave very logical explanation why is that very possible.

The problem is, your opinion is not backed up by adequate knowledge of the subject, as you have demonstrated of dozens of times throughout this thread. You post emotion, not reason. Feelings, not facts. And when you're called out on it, you just backpedal and contradict yourself, just like you're doing now with "Wii U is GC tech" and "no noticeable downgrades".

See, you seem to think you're getting away with it, but you don't seem to realize that guys like me, potato hamster, oniyide, soundwave, JEMC, svennoj, etc, we know enough about the subject that when you pull stuff out of your arse, we know instantly.

I am not backpedal anything just seems you don't understand some things, I said Wii U GC tech because specify Wii U CPU is GC tech and thats well know fact. And about 3rd party ports I already wrote, biggest downgrade will be 720p, there will be some other downgrades but not so noticeable like 720p beacuse tech is there.  "Have demonstrated of dozens of times throughout this thread"!? Stop with this, its very immature to accuse someone without evidence or examples for such a claims.

Getting away with it!? :D  I dont pull anything from my arse, I gave my opinions of infos we have. Prove that I am wrong or that my thinkings are not likly.

 

curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

PS3/X360 that have only around 256MB RAM for games 

Wrong again.

As of 2010, PS3 only reserved 50MB of RAM for the OS, leaving around 462MB available for games. And even before that, the OS was 120MB, still leaving about 392MB for games, not 256. https://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/70mb-of-additional-ram-unlocked-for-ps3-developers/

Xbox 360, on the other hand, had a 32MB OS, leaving 480MB available for games.

"Wrong again"!? About what exatly I was wrong before!?

I am wrong about PS3/X360 RAM, but my point still stands, thats again less than 512MB and very small amount of RAM.



teigaga on 04 November 2016

Mess at this convo still going on.

If developers wanted to port their games to Switch from PS4 it will certainly be possible, but in 8/10 times it will be a lot more than just lowering the resolution. It's not that deep though. The real question is whether there is an audience for their games on Switch which encourages them to put in that effort. If there is, then the effort is minor compares to the reward. Also how much they value the core vision because we know certain Devs will not downgrade their games beyond the necessity to succeed. 



daredevil.shark on 04 November 2016

This thread has been a good source of laughter for me. No offense but third party and processing power doesn't match with Nintendo and people will understand it again in a bitter way. Saving my comments for one or two years later to be used.



zwei on 04 November 2016

Switch IS a handheld, so 4GB is good enough.



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