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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Switch probably more powerful than the Xbox One S, gets PS4 ports

setsunatenshi said:
HoloDust said:

Yeah, there's just one problem with that article - it's written by someone who just picked up highest number nVidia put out, not paying attention that it's FP16 performance and then went on to compare it with FP32 performance of PS4 and X1.

X1 is 512GFLOPS in FP32, not 1TFLOP (that's FP16).

However, I do agree that 1-1.5TFLOPS (FP32) might be possible in docked mode, it's just a question how far Nintendo went with the whole concept.

Not really, it's a power charger = hdmi connector to the TV. No processing power in it (according to Nintendo's PR guy's own words).

 

Not anywhere close to even and Xbox 1 and the ports will be the same kind of ports the Vita also gets from PS4, which means, mostly smaller independent titles and some Japanese last gen crossovers.

As I said earlier (and in different threads), in theory it doesn't have to be in dock, but in main unit.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8112499

For the sake of thought experiment, slap two Tegra X1 onto the same die, make it 14nm and run only one downclocked to 700MHz in hendheld mode for ~360 GFLOPS and (if my math is correct) around 10W TDP and run both @1GHz when docked for 1TFLOPs. Or slap 3 X1s for 1.5TFLOPs.

Of course, this is all just having fun with guesstimates, no idea what tech at what cost nVidia can provide, and what is Nintendo willing to pay.



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Wasnt there an article about the discovery of a better manufacturing method that basically bumps the energy-using performance by more than 50%?And since the chipset is custom, couldnt Nintendo be using a similar tecnology that could play current gen games on the portable mode with a decent battery life?(around 5 hours I was thinking)



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

HoloDust said:
Slimebeast said:

Is that even confirmed though?

To me it looks unlikely. Unlikely that they waste resources on two separate GPUs just to make it a bit more powerful in docking mode. Might as well launch it as separate consoles.

In theory it doesn't have to be in the dock - it can be in the main unit and be fully operational with default clock only when docked and running partially disabled (a la PS4 Pro) and/or downclocked when handheld.

nVidia is about to launch in a few days desktop GPU that is about as strong or stronger then PS4 for $110...not saying anything like it is inside NS, just giving perspective of how cheap even nVidia's GPUs of such power are.

But the same GPU running underclocked in handheld mode is farfetched. Usually there's not a crucial difference between an underclocked or overclocked GPU. I can't see how that's the difference between home mode and handheld mode. I think they will be equal.



Faelco said:
Vita has PS4 game ports too.

Vita as powerful as the PS4 confirmed?

Vita > PS4 confirmed

 



HoloDust said:
setsunatenshi said:

Not really, it's a power charger = hdmi connector to the TV. No processing power in it (according to Nintendo's PR guy's own words).

 

Not anywhere close to even and Xbox 1 and the ports will be the same kind of ports the Vita also gets from PS4, which means, mostly smaller independent titles and some Japanese last gen crossovers.

As I said earlier (and in different threads), in theory it doesn't have to be in dock, but in main unit.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8112499

For the sake of thought experiment, slap two Tegra X1 onto the same die, make it 14nm and run only one downclocked to 700MHz in hendheld mode for ~360 GFLOPS and (if my math is correct) around 10W TDP and run both @1GHz when docked for 1TFLOPs. Or slap 3 X1s for 1.5TFLOPs.

Of course, this is all just having fun with guesstimates, no idea what tech at what cost nVidia can provide, and what is Nintendo willing to pay.

you can't just 'glue' 2 processors together, that's not how it works. also having 2 processors would also increase the tdp (terrible on a handheld) and also lower the battery by a ton. all of this without even thinking about price, that would be a whole new can of worms.

the easiest way to think of it is, if it was possible to have around the x1 performance in a tablet, the x1s wouldn't have the size it does (even adding the optical drive).

regardless, for a handheld this should be plenty powerful, it should not be compared to a regular console as it wouldn't even be fair to what they are trying to do.



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It would be nice if Nintendo put more thought in to the hardware power, but it looks they didn't really.

I didn't see a single thing in that trailer that wouldn't be possible on a Wii U. Yeah the Mario game looked a little better than 3D World, but 3D World had the forced isometric viewpoint to accomodate multiplayer and wasn't exactly pushing the Wii U to its absolute limit.

I also saw what appeared to be slow down on Zelda. And NBA 2K looked the same as the PS3/360 versions.

This is also in line with Eurogamer (who is now proven 100% right) that said a source of theirs who saw gameplay on the system said it was a bit better than the PS3 but in the PS4/XB1 ball park. 



setsunatenshi said:
HoloDust said:

As I said earlier (and in different threads), in theory it doesn't have to be in dock, but in main unit.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8112499

For the sake of thought experiment, slap two Tegra X1 onto the same die, make it 14nm and run only one downclocked to 700MHz in hendheld mode for ~360 GFLOPS and (if my math is correct) around 10W TDP and run both @1GHz when docked for 1TFLOPs. Or slap 3 X1s for 1.5TFLOPs.

Of course, this is all just having fun with guesstimates, no idea what tech at what cost nVidia can provide, and what is Nintendo willing to pay.

you can't just 'glue' 2 processors together, that's not how it works. also having 2 processors would also increase the tdp (terrible on a handheld) and also lower the battery by a ton. all of this without even thinking about price, that would be a whole new can of worms.

the easiest way to think of it is, if it was possible to have around the x1 performance in a tablet, the x1s wouldn't have the size it does (even adding the optical drive).

regardless, for a handheld this should be plenty powerful, it should not be compared to a regular console as it wouldn't even be fair to what they are trying to do.

Actually you kinda can - and they do it. Read Eurogamer's interview with Mark Cerny on PS4 Pro - they've, more or less, just added mirror copy of PS4's GPU and built it on lower node, thus higher base clock. When PS4 Pro is in PS4 mode it simply disables half of GPU and downclocks itself.

Also, PowerVR GPUs...scalable almost like LEGOs.

Not that I said that's what nVidia would actually do with X1 successor (remember...I said "for the sake of thought experiment") - as I said, in "home" or "docked" mode full GPU is enabled and it's running at full clock. In handheld mode, half of it is disabled and it's downclocked - but it needs to deal with much lower resolution of handheld, so that's ok.

And again, this is just having fun with guesstimates, new console launches are always fun times for people who like to do such sort of thing.



Soundwave said:

I saw nothing in that trailer that was even close to Ryse, Gears of Wars 4, etc. Everything looked like a Wii U game. 

There simply isn't a mobile chip available that can run XBox One graphics 1 for 1, even the die shrink XBox One S still runs at 50 watts ... now I'm going to break that down for some people, but that means even something the size of an iPad Pro, which has a MONSTER battery would die running 50 watts in about 40 minutes (provided it didn't melt first).

Which is why the tablet will downclock in "portable mode" to conserve battery and lower temperature. When it's in the dock, it will be able to run a full-speed and enable active cooling. 



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StuOhQ said:
Soundwave said:

I saw nothing in that trailer that was even close to Ryse, Gears of Wars 4, etc. Everything looked like a Wii U game. 

There simply isn't a mobile chip available that can run XBox One graphics 1 for 1, even the die shrink XBox One S still runs at 50 watts ... now I'm going to break that down for some people, but that means even something the size of an iPad Pro, which has a MONSTER battery would die running 50 watts in about 40 minutes (provided it didn't melt first).

Which is why the tablet will downclock in "portable mode" to conserve battery and lower temperature. When it's in the dock, it will be able to run a full-speed and enable active cooling. 

We don't really know if this is the case. 

There's lots of things techies say Nintendo should do, like a certain group of people who were convinced a 2.5 TFLOP AMD Polaris *had* to happen. 

Nintendo has their own design principals. I'm guessing something like that could be possible, be even so it would still only be a Tegra X2 type processor and there are other issues beyond just clocking. Memory bandwidth doesn't magically change for example just because you have a docked mode. 

Personally I think Nintendo themselves is more than fine with something double the Wii U anyway, I don't think they are even interested in anything beyond that. Pushing the Wii U to its limit probably already required a game budget that was deemed too expensive by Nintendo's standards. 



dgboweniii said:

Yep, It's running on Pascal, it will be more powerful than the PS4.  

Prove it.

TheLastStarFighter said:
This is a pretty nice write up of the system, suggesting it will be between 1-1.5 TFLops, right in the XBOne range.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendo-switch-hardware-analysis/

No.

HoloDust said:

Yeah, there's just one problem with that article - it's written by someone who just picked up highest number nVidia put out, not paying attention that it's FP16 performance and then went on to compare it with FP32 performance of PS4 and X1.

X1 is 512GFLOPS in FP32, not 1TFLOP (that's FP16).

However, I do agree that 1-1.5TFLOPS (FP32) might be possible in docked mode, it's just a question how far Nintendo went with the whole concept.

Doubt it.

Pascal based Tegra is already running at something like 1466Mhz. You would need to hit almost 3Ghz to have 1.5 Teraflops.
Besides, there is more to performance than flops, if it was the only thing we needed to worry about then the comparisons would be easy.

setsunatenshi said:

Not really, it's a power charger = hdmi connector to the TV. No processing power in it (according to Nintendo's PR guy's own words).

 

Not anywhere close to even and Xbox 1 and the ports will be the same kind of ports the Vita also gets from PS4, which means, mostly smaller independent titles and some Japanese last gen crossovers.

I don't think you can use the Playstation 4 and Vita as some kind of comparison. Nintendo has combined both it's product lineups and typically has a strong first party lineup.


HoloDust said:

As I said earlier (and in different threads), in theory it doesn't have to be in dock, but in main unit.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8112499

For the sake of thought experiment, slap two Tegra X1 onto the same die, make it 14nm and run only one downclocked to 700MHz in hendheld mode for ~360 GFLOPS and (if my math is correct) around 10W TDP and run both @1GHz when docked for 1TFLOPs. Or slap 3 X1s for 1.5TFLOPs.

Of course, this is all just having fun with guesstimates, no idea what tech at what cost nVidia can provide, and what is Nintendo willing to pay.

Sure. That would be entirely possible.

However... SLI isn't efficient.
It also drives up costs.

Memory pools need to be duplicated for each chip.

Soundwave said:

There's lots of things techies say Nintendo should do, like a certain group of people who were convinced a 2.5 TFLOP AMD Polaris *had* to happen.

Well. I never said it *had* to happen. But I would have liked that kind of level of capability in the stationary device at a minimum.
More power is always a good thing in my eyes.



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