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Forums - Sports - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:

The why would be because it makes it easier for him to cash in if the champs think he's out. And the less unexpected the cash in the more people usually enjoy it.

I think we should agree to disagree. I'll just give my reasoning with what I hope is greater clarity:

I don't a very strong reason so much as a trick pulled out of a hat of tricks. And this trick doesn't build Seth, his stable, or anyone else. It cools down his heel heat by taking him off TV in the buildup. There isn't really any entertainment value for the crowd that can be equalled or exceeded in other ways. The big match on the card is a Smackdown match, it seems a little weird, Cody defeats Cena and transitions the belt to Seth, and Seth moves to Smackdown cutting off the vengeance feuds with Punk and Roman. Taking the belt off of Gunther anytime soon makes no sense, apart from a heel taking the belt off a heel, didn't Gunther just retire Goldberg?

The injury to me looks entirely legit. If it isn't legit, I don't see how just having him pop back in a few weeks to take the belt would be entertaining or enjoyable. Simply getting his faction to level the champion, keep him in the ring, and then have Seth cash the box to take the belt would be a superior angle because it: A. affirms and builds the legitimacy of Seth and the Stable as dangerous (like when NWO beat down The Rock). B. provides greater motivation for the babyface. C. It's more entertaining for the crowd. D. It adds heel heat to Seth and his stable.

I'm not saying that cashing in at a surprise moment and stealing the belt won't work down the road (like at WM or RR). But it would be under very different circumstances with a very different goal: after an extended absence and recovering from a legit injury and a massive setback, fans will want to see him back, and with a babyface turn against a hated heel.

But anyway, that's my reasoning there. We'll see how it goes.

Kind of pointless to argue about what would be the better booking decision because the smart decision and what wwe actually does are not always the same thing. There are oodles of decisions wwe has made which we could come up with a better alternative.

But to argue about why it could make sense, it makes Seth more dastardly. His group is already being viewed as kind of faces so having the fans legitimately feel deceived could be a way to change that.

It also keeps him away from potential opponents. For example, if he didn't get injured, legit or not, what would have been the end to the match? L.A. Knight losing a match when he cant really afford it. Then how do we prevent everyone he's pissed off from taking revenge on him without killing all of their momentum? Meanwhile, if done right, this could help legitimize Breaker and Reed as more than Flunkies.

So i think there are valid reasons to do it, even though booking decisions are not always based on valid reasoning. We'll see.



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In a rare moment of class, the fans at Evolution were hugely supportive of Charlotte Flair. While she has been booked way too strong by this point, and her attitude can be questionable at times, she doubtlessly contributed a lot to women's wrestling. So, on a night that was designed to celebrate that, it was good to see Charlotte having a nice moment.

Also, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that if you want to get a heel to be cheered, put them in an oddcouple tag team. See Riddle/Orton/ MJF/Cole.





Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:

Yup. Good riddance. The world is a slightly better place now. My only regret is we wont get any new crazy lies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7WTm-6JSds&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD



A very rough week for celebrities. First Malcom-Jamal Warner, then Ozzy, and now Hogan.

IMO, there are two ways to look at Hogan. If I may be a bit distasteful for a moment before I get to my point and feelings right now. (I feel this is a "safe space" for tastelessness after the Iron Sheik joke :D)

On one hand (this is the tasteless part!): in life - he was a racist, overrated in the ring and on the mic (extremely so), and ultimately behaved selfishly.
But, he's not someone like Chris Benoit, he didn't do any permanent damage, nothing that couldn't be forgiven.
So, in death: I think it's very hard to not feel sadness at the passing of someone who had such a profound impact on an industry you've been a fan of for decades. Also tragic, because it's likely his life was cut 10 to 25 years short from steroid abuse and the damage done to his body in the ring. And I think all that supersedes all of the negativity.

Anyway, that's kind of my feelings on the situation about The Hulk Hogan.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Disagree on no permanent damage.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Jumpin said:

A very rough week for celebrities. First Malcom-Jamal Warner, then Ozzy, and now Hogan.

IMO, there are two ways to look at Hogan. If I may be a bit distasteful for a moment before I get to my point and feelings right now. (I feel this is a "safe space" for tastelessness after the Iron Sheik joke :D)

On one hand (this is the tasteless part!): in life - he was a racist, overrated in the ring and on the mic (extremely so), and ultimately behaved selfishly.
But, he's not someone like Chris Benoit, he didn't do any permanent damage, nothing that couldn't be forgiven.
So, in death: I think it's very hard to not feel sadness at the passing of someone who had such a profound impact on an industry you've been a fan of for decades. Also tragic, because it's likely his life was cut 10 to 25 years short from steroid abuse and the damage done to his body in the ring. And I think all that supersedes all of the negativity.

Anyway, that's kind of my feelings on the situation about The Hulk Hogan.

Anyone who wants to forgive him can do so. But why should they? I'm not into the whole be nice to dead people thing. Hogan was a piece of shit. All his death changes is that he's a dead piece of shit.



Hogan's legacy is a rather controversial and complicated one.

On one hand, professional wrestling as we know it today, the history behind it for the last 40 years, and everything we know and love about it today - He's the one. He's the one who made it possible. He's the one most responsible for all of it. There's a reason why Vince chose him. Vince may have had the dream, but the dream does not become reality without Hogan. The guy had the look that SCREAMED superstar and had charisma oozing out of his pours. The guy was front and center for not one, but TWO 'boom' periods in wrestling - The 80s Rock 'n' Wresting Connection/Golden Era of the WWF and the rise of WCW/the Monday Night Wars of the mid-late 90s.

No matter how much you may hate the guy - And there is A LOT of reason to hate him for sure - You cannot take that away from him. You cannot deny the impact he had on wrestling as a whole. Doing so is straight up delusional and you can't possibly expect to be taken seriously if you do. Professional Wrestling as whole is what it is today, thanks to Hulk Hogan.

That said, for as much good as he did for pro wrestling - He also did PLENTY of bad. Chief among them - Ratting out Jesse Ventura and his attempt to form a union for the wrestlers - Something that could have protected all the boys and girls from back then and now and could have saved A LOT of lives - Just to line his own pockets. He is an absolute piece of shit for that, and he deserves all the flack he gets for doing that - In life AND in death. There was also the whole Steroid scandel, that DISASTROUS Arsenio Hall appearance. His politicking and sabotaging other wrestlers' careers just to feed his own ego - (WrestleMania IX, Starrcade '97, Bash at the Beach '00, etc.) which helped contribute to the eventual demise of WCW. For as much as he helped lift that company to its highest highs, he also helped contribute to its lowest lows and downfall.

And then there's the sex tapes and the horribly racist shit he said on them. And contrary to what many might say, no, he never did apologize for what he said. All he ever apologized for was the fact that he wasn't aware he was being taped and trying to caution the talent to be aware of that possibility... "I'm only sorry that I got caught, brother!"

TL:DR - His legacy basically comes down to this:
Hulk Hogan, the wrestler - The biggest icon, legend, and pioneer in the history of wrestling who did more than anyone in history to shape it into what it is today. And his impact is undeniable and will *ahem* live forever. And he absolutely deserves his respect and flowers for that.
Terry Bollea, the person - Vile, despicable, piece of shit human being whom the world is better off without.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 25 July 2025

The character "Hulk Hogan" was great in general, my favorite incarnation was Hollywood Hogan, cause I started watching wrestling starting with WCW in the late 1990s and just loved the NWO (never watched WWF during the 1990s).

Wasnt too much of a fan when he was a face in WWE and didnt watch his pre-WCW WWF footage until years later but clips- I should watch some of the older stuff on that era on Netflix sometime in the future so I can see the feuds and matches he had.

I started watching WWE when the NWO arrived on RAW.

As for the real life persona, totally pushed me away, hated the reality tv show, the racism, what he did to other wrestlers, etc 

PAOerfulone said:


TL:DR - His legacy basically comes down to this:
Hulk Hogan, the wrestler - The biggest icon, legend, and pioneer in the history of wrestling who did more than anyone in history to shape it into what it is today. And his impact is undeniable and will *ahem* live forever. And he absolutely deserves his respect and flowers for that.
Terry Bollea, the person - Vile, despicable, piece of shit human being whom the world is better off without.

Pretty much.



Apparently Vince had a car crash the same day Hogan died...

Now, I'm not saying I want Vince to die in a fiery crash... just saying, it would have been one hell of a good storyline.