... | |||
| Yes. | 60 | 17.80% | |
| No. | 236 | 70.03% | |
| Not sure. | 16 | 4.75% | |
| Results. | 25 | 7.42% | |
| Total: | 337 | ||
Xbox Scorpio already is like a Xone successor, PS4Pro really is just a mid-gen upgrade, i believe PS5 probably will be release either holiday 2019 or early 2020 which is Scorpio released 2 years later, and the whole console war will end after that because don't think there will be another Scorpio successor within that same period...
Scorpio will be the worst selling console since Wii U/Vita, who'd want to compete with that?
| Soundwave said: Is Scorpio really a "mid-gen" refresh? A "mid-gen" refresh should be like what the Wii was to the GameCube ... a moderate upgrade. Not a practical full generational leap in GPU and a new CPU and probably new RAM to boot, lol. |
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-scorpio-wont-have-exclusive-games-except-for-/1100-6442754/
"Forward compatibility" is what seperates the Scorpio from being a full next-gen machine. Any game that they make for that 6 TFLOP system is also going to have to run on a 1.3 TFLOP system.
It's the same reason I think the Pro doesn't show that Sony is going to be blending generations. I am very confident that the PS5 games won't be required to run on the PS4 or even the Pro.
Here's the pickle I see MS running into if they try to blur generations while Sony keeps them going.
Lets say it's February 2019. Sony announces the PS5 due for launch November of the same year. It's a clean break from the PS4 lineup, but is backwards compatible with all PS4 games, and it is far and away more powerful than even the Scorpio.
Then they show games. Games that Sony isn't going to require to run on anything weaker than the PS5. They will be a truley generational leap above any games out at the time.
So now MS is in a situation where they have a piece of hardware that's less than 18 months old that can't offer visuals anywhere near the PS5 becuase they promised forward compatibility with a 1.3 TFLOP system.
Beyond that. Sony is going to be going to developers saying "Here's the new hardware, make games for the old one if you'd like. But you don't have to." Wheras MS is going to be saying "If you want to make a Scorpio game, it must also run on the old Xbox One."
What happens? What happens when MS wants to release it's next piece of hardware? Do they stop supporting the Xbox One in 2020? Because then that's just a generation, is it not? Also, now do they need to provide forward compatibility to the Scorpio without the normal Xbox One? Which by this time will also be a good deal underpowered.
Bet with Adamblaziken:
I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.
No. Until the time is right.
| KBG29 said: Just a reality check for those that think a PS5 in 2019 is going to be truly next gen. The first thing you have to know is that true leaps in console capability only come with shrinks to technology. You can get refinment and improved performance from the same tech over time, but nothing beats a shrink in the tech itself. In this current generation we had the PS4 and the XBO launch with 28nm Planar APU's, and now we have PS4 Pro launching with a 14nm FinFET APU. The Pro also benefited from three refinments to the Gaphics Core Next (GCN) tech from AMD, which in hand with the shink in chip size gave it a decent boost, but nothing that is blowing people away. Now, lets look at the power consumption of the PS4 vs the PS4 Pro. We don't have final actual use test, but we do know the OG PS4 launched with a 250W powersupply, and the PS4 Pro has a 310W power suppply. So the PS4 Pro has a small more energy effiecient chip, based on a more a GPU desing with higher effeciency per Watt, and it is still drawing enough power to require a 60W bigger power supply that the OG PS4. Looking at the road map to future AMD tech you will see this kind of leap in fabrication size is not going to happen again. We skipped 20nm Planar which was what the original slim PS4 was supposed to be based on, and ended up all the way down on 14nm FinFET due to manufacting problems with that 20nm Planar process. The next thing in line, and quite possibly where the XBO will be made is on 10nm FinFET and based on AMD Vega. This is the only way the will pull of 6TFLOPs and stay in the confinments of a console. Again, though, the difference between the Pro and Scorpio, will only be 30%. That means something like 1440p - 4k on the Pro and 1800p -4k on the scorpio. Now if we look ahead to 2019, we see that the plan is for AMD to move to 7nm FinFET, and a GPU code named Navi. This GPU in itself will not be a massive improvement over the Pro and the Scorpio, but will see a decent boost due to being paired with "next gen memory" the revision after HBM2. This is what your so called PS5 would be based on, however, AMD only expects the leap between the PS4 Pro's Polaris GPU tech and the Navi GPU to be about as big as the jump from, PS4 to PS4 Pro. So, basically, if PS5 comes out in 2019, the best we can expect from a console with a 300W power supply at $399.99 is about 10TFLOPs. That is enough to do a very clean 4K with new bells and whistles, but it will not fundamentaly change the way a game is made. These will still be the same game as you could get on the OG PS4 at 1080p. Perhapps, that will be enough for Sony, and the cadence for new conmsoles will be every three years, only time will tell. IF that is the case though, I fully expect major disapointment when PS5 is revealed, as most people will be let down, because theyare living on unrealistic expectations. |
Nice writeup. That does sound like enough for me, particularly as I'm probably skipping the Pro. Wouldn't mind personally if they stuffed more in for a $500 price point, but after the PS4's success I'd certainly understand going for $400 again.
I just realized... people are going to be able to play games like Watch Dogs 2, Deus Ex, For Honor, FF15 in 4K one year before microsoft rolls out anything. Along with the huge marketshare PS4 already has... This may be a more of an obvious coffin in the nail to microsoft than anyone realizes.
When you buy FF15/COD/BF1, will you buy the 4K version...? A solid yes for most gamers.
Sony knows this, this is why they jacked up the ps plus prices to cover the cost of the ps4 pro. This is just perfect.
And we haven't even add PSVR and the huge lead in exclusive AAA games sony has to the equation.
| Drakrami said: I just realized... people are going to be able to play games like Watch Dogs 2, Deus Ex, For Honor, FF15 in 4K one year before microsoft rolls out anything. Along with the huge marketshare PS4 already has... This may be a more of an obvious coffin in the nail to microsoft than anyone realizes. Sony knows this, this is why they jacked up the ps plus prices to cover the cost of the ps4 pro. This is just perfect.
And we haven't even add PSVR and the huge lead in exclusive AAA games sony has to the equation. |
Digital Foundry is going to be a pain in the arse for Xbox fans for a entire year.
The differnce between a PS4 Pro and a Xbox One slim, is going to be rough to watch in compairison videos.
It could be the sort of thing that makes people that mainly play multiplats go "f*** this, Im getting a playstation".
| Normchacho said: "Forward compatibility" is what seperates the Scorpio from being a full next-gen machine. Any game that they make for that 6 TFLOP system is also going to have to run on a 1.3 TFLOP system. So now MS is in a situation where they have a piece of hardware that's less than 18 months old that can't offer visuals anywhere near the PS5 becuase they promised forward compatibility with a 1.3 TFLOP system. |
They haven't promised that, that is what Sony is promising with PS4 Pro.
MS is saying that STARTING WITH Scorpio there will be no more gens, no more compatability breaks.
That means that Scorpio 2 will be fully compatable with Scorpio, but doesn't mean Scorpio is fully compatable with XBone.
Which makes sense because they are changing memory models between Xbone and Scorpio,
which requires very different code optimization to core functions, not just "settings tweaks" to FX quality, lighting, etc.
Interestingly, Scorpio memory model is similar to PS4, so x-platform game optimization will be much easier going forward.
| Drakrami said: I just realized... people are going to be able to play games like Watch Dogs 2, Deus Ex, For Honor, FF15 in 4K one year before microsoft rolls out anything. Along with the huge marketshare PS4 already has... This may be a more of an obvious coffin in the nail to microsoft than anyone realizes. |
Your broader point is fine enough, Sony establishes more value in their brand, and people are happy to pay for that value. The idea that PSN Plus price increase is "covering the cost of the ps4 pro" is absurd though, because there is no evidence that Sony is subsidizing PS4 Pro at all... I mean, they're not even including a 4K BDXL drive which even MS' Xbone S can manage. So yes, Sony is taking profits off of it's superior positioned product, but that has nothing to do with subsidizing costs of their latest console.
GribbleGrunger said:
They're not in a better position, the Scorpio doesn't exist. When the Scorpio does exist, we can have this conversation. |
MS knows the final specs of the Pro, that's not a better position?
There's no way Scoprio will be a threat to the Ps4. Unless it packs Windows 10.
Which, on second thought, it probably will.
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