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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Emily Rogers: NX Below XB1/PS4 In Power; Battery Life Is Not Great

se7en7thre3 said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
ever since female link situation, i cant take anything she says seriously

I'm also skeptical but, unless the source is purposely feeding garbage info, wherever its coming from has to be credible at least .  dat confidence:

" I can't stress enough how confident I am about the info in this article...I'm not pulling anyone's leg here..."

 

 


and she was confident about her past wrong predictions too,so again,cant take her seriously 



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thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:

Actually *for a portable device* a Parker based Tegra (X2?) is a fucking beast of a chip. It's bleeding edge. 

That's like 16x better than a Vita and next to a 3DS ... lol, it's like going from an NES to a Playstation. 

And 720p for a 6-inch device is still a pretty damn good PPI, it's almost on par with a $1000 iPad Pro for PPI. 

Having a screen resolution over 720p would be ultimately a waste of resources for a gaming-centric device, you'll get a very nice image quality at 720p on thte go at 6-inches provided Nintendo doesn't use an ass quality display and you save on battery life which is more important at that point. 

I think the idea of attaching it to a home dock which can increase power would be a very smart way of closing the power gap for home use, my worry there is Nintendo will get lazy and say "well this is good enough" ... this would be a great way for Nintendo to compromise and offer people who want higher end visuals at home a bone. That would be a true "hybrid" device IMO, but we'll see if they do that or not. 

I have a 5.2" 1080p phone.  Before I had a 5.5" 720p one.  I am never going back to 720p.  Sure, it's not god awful, but you can tell the difference.  And once you've seen that difference, you don't want to go back.  It's just nice not seeing the pixels that make up the image.  A 6.2" 720p screen would be worse.

As far as the Tegra goes, I'm still skeptical that that is what's in it.  Going AMD would most likely be cheaper, and Nintendo likes cheap.  The other manufacturers have also had problems with Nvidia, which is why everybody went with AMD this gen.  I just don't see them switching.  AMD also said they had 3 wins this year.  One would launch this year, most likely Neo, and the other 2 next year.  If we assume Scorpio is one, who is the other?  I would think the NX.  Unless Sony really is trying to put out another PSP after the success of the PS4, but I just don't see that happening.

Personally, I think the dock will end up just being a easy way to hook up the console to the TV and charge it.  I don't think they are going to put extra HW inside it to boost the power by a little.  It just seems like it would increase the price incredibly.  And this thing needs to stay cheap if Nintendo wants it to sell.

Soundwave said:

The downside to that is a lot of Nintendo IP would likely get shelved forever. 

Nintendo wouldn't bother to make a game like Punch-Out or Pilotwings or Kid Icarus ... they make these types of games now because they have to support an entire platform. Probably something like Splatoon likely wouldn't get made either. 

As a third party they'd just become like EA and all these other shitty companies and just pump out Mario Kart, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and nothing but every 1-2 years because that's all that would sell and they're under no obligation to diversify their library as they have no platform to really support. 

Look at how much more diverse and great Sega's software was when they had to support the Dreamcast versus what it became as a third party.

I highly doubt that.  As long as they sell decently, Nintendo will make more of them.  Hell, if they are given support from ND or SM, like Sony often does for devs getting to know their HW, they might actually pump these games out much quicker than they have been doing.  Unless you think Nintendo is as "evil" as EA and their consoles are the only thing holding back that evil.

And Sega's lack of diversity had A LOT more to do with their financial woes than it did their lack of supporting a console.  Nintendo doesn't face that same fate.

AMD doesn't have a mobile processor comparable to what Nvidia is doing. Nintendo's head of the technology and system architecture is also a former Nvidia employee. That and apparently Nvidia was very, very close to the 3DS contract with an older Tegra chip apparently but their chip ran too hot 5-6 years ago. 

AMD is out. Besides they themselves said they had three semi-custom design wins for gaming, we know now two of them were to Microsoft (they congratulated MS on XB1 S and XB Scorpio being new semi-custom designs) and we know the other one is PS4 Neo. So Nintnedo is out on AMD. They probably got a sweet, sweet deal on that Tegra chip because Nvidia has struggled to find vendors for it ... it's too powerful/hot for a smartphone and too powerful for a tablet too, Nvidia is only able to sell them to self-driving cars and those are really years away from selling in big volume. 

A high resolution screen is nice, but it's pointless if the chip can't render at that resolution. Running games natively at 1080P ... even the XB1 and PS4 struggle at that resolution, a mobile chip would get so hot you'd be able to cook an egg on it if you pressed it to run a high level of visuals. Also I doubt you'll be reading a lot of eBooks or browsing a ton of websites on the NX, things where screen resolution matters moreso on a small device. 

As for the multiplat thing, I don't see a ton of diversity on the PS4/XB1 ecosystem as far as what actually sells either. IMO if Nintendo goes third party then their priorities change because who gives a shit about making a Punch-Out or Wave Race or F-Zero or even a Splatoon. Your responsibilities as a third party are strictly to yourself as a company, not towards building a broad userbase. And even so, I don't even think it's a lock many of Nintendo's franchises would do great on Sony/MS' fan bases ... we can see the most popular games on those platforms are violent shooters, crime games, violent mideval hack n' slash games, and Hollywood wannabe action games, and sports or racing simulators ... none of these are genres that Nintendo does well in. 

I wouldn't mind if maybe they allowed NX software to run on Nvidia-approved PC set ups, or if the supplemental compute unit allowed you to use a Nvidia GPU straight up (a PC one) for people who really want that. Maybe they can work more with Nvidia because Nvidia seemed interested in building a software ecosystem of some type. 



Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

AMD doesn't have a mobile processor comparable to what Nvidia is doing. Nintendo's head of the technology and system architecture is also a former Nvidia employee. That and apparently Nvidia was very, very close to the 3DS contract with an older Tegra chip apparently but their chip ran too hot 5-6 years ago. 

AMD is out. Besides they themselves said they had three semi-custom design wins for gaming, we know now two of them were to Microsoft (they congratulated MS on XB1 S and XB Scorpio being new semi-custom designs) and we know the other one is PS4 Neo. So Nintnedo is out on AMD. They probably got a sweet, sweet deal on that Tegra chip because Nvidia has struggled to find vendors for it ... it's too powerful/hot for a smartphone and too powerful for a tablet too, Nvidia is only able to sell them to self-driving cars and those are really years away from selling in big volume. 

A high resolution screen is nice, but it's pointless if the chip can't render at that resolution. Running games natively at 1080P ... even the XB1 and PS4 struggle at that resolution, a mobile chip would get so hot you'd be able to cook an egg on it if you pressed it to run a high level of visuals. Also I doubt you'll be reading a lot of eBooks or browsing a ton of websites on the NX, things where screen resolution matters moreso on a small device. 

As for the multiplat thing, I don't see a ton of diversity on the PS4/XB1 ecosystem as far as what actually sells either. IMO if Nintendo goes third party then their priorities change because who gives a shit about making a Punch-Out or Wave Race or F-Zero or even a Splatoon. Your responsibilities as a third party are strictly to yourself as a company, not towards building a broad userbase. And even so, I don't even think it's a lock many of Nintendo's franchises would do great on Sony/MS' fan bases ... we can see the most popular games on those platforms are violent shooters, crime games, violent mideval hack n' slash games, and Hollywood wannabe action games, and sports or racing simulators ... none of these are genres that Nintendo does well in. 

I wouldn't mind if maybe they allowed NX software to run on Nvidia-approved PC set ups, or if the supplemental compute unit allowed you to use a Nvidia GPU straight up (a PC one) for people who really want that. Maybe they can work more with Nvidia because Nvidia seemed interested in building a software ecosystem of some type. 

AMD made their GPU for scalability in size, and they designed them so they are like Legos.

They can make ARM chips with AMD gpus if  you ask them to, custom chips.

Nvidia doesnt make their gpus like legos, it costs effeciency to do so, and they rather have really effecient chips instead.

But it means nvidia cant make custom chips without them designing the intire chip from the ground up, and it takeing years and costing a fortune.

With AMD they can litterly ask a customer what they want, write it down, go to a pc, and put int X units of said amount + Y units of said amount, and basically start production almost instantly.

They designed their technology to be like legos. They can add and remove parts, really really easily. They did this hopeing to win alot of customers that wanted their own custom designs.

 

With nvidia if you buy a chip from them, your not getting your own "special" version of a chip from them, unless your paying out the arse for it.

Which is why if nintendo went Nvidia, its very likely whatever chip they get is 100% a match for what nvidia is releaseing for other stuff.

Ei. Tegra X2 , not a version of it specialised to suit Nintendo.

 

AMD could make a mobile ARM cpu if you wanted it.



JRPGfan said:
Soundwave said:

AMD doesn't have a mobile processor comparable to what Nvidia is doing. Nintendo's head of the technology and system architecture is also a former Nvidia employee. That and apparently Nvidia was very, very close to the 3DS contract with an older Tegra chip apparently but their chip ran too hot 5-6 years ago. 

AMD is out. Besides they themselves said they had three semi-custom design wins for gaming, we know now two of them were to Microsoft (they congratulated MS on XB1 S and XB Scorpio being new semi-custom designs) and we know the other one is PS4 Neo. So Nintnedo is out on AMD. They probably got a sweet, sweet deal on that Tegra chip because Nvidia has struggled to find vendors for it ... it's too powerful/hot for a smartphone and too powerful for a tablet too, Nvidia is only able to sell them to self-driving cars and those are really years away from selling in big volume. 

A high resolution screen is nice, but it's pointless if the chip can't render at that resolution. Running games natively at 1080P ... even the XB1 and PS4 struggle at that resolution, a mobile chip would get so hot you'd be able to cook an egg on it if you pressed it to run a high level of visuals. Also I doubt you'll be reading a lot of eBooks or browsing a ton of websites on the NX, things where screen resolution matters moreso on a small device. 

As for the multiplat thing, I don't see a ton of diversity on the PS4/XB1 ecosystem as far as what actually sells either. IMO if Nintendo goes third party then their priorities change because who gives a shit about making a Punch-Out or Wave Race or F-Zero or even a Splatoon. Your responsibilities as a third party are strictly to yourself as a company, not towards building a broad userbase. And even so, I don't even think it's a lock many of Nintendo's franchises would do great on Sony/MS' fan bases ... we can see the most popular games on those platforms are violent shooters, crime games, violent mideval hack n' slash games, and Hollywood wannabe action games, and sports or racing simulators ... none of these are genres that Nintendo does well in. 

I wouldn't mind if maybe they allowed NX software to run on Nvidia-approved PC set ups, or if the supplemental compute unit allowed you to use a Nvidia GPU straight up (a PC one) for people who really want that. Maybe they can work more with Nvidia because Nvidia seemed interested in building a software ecosystem of some type. 

AMD made their GPU for scalability in size, and they designed them so they are like Legos.

They can make ARM chips with AMD gpus if  you ask them to, custom chips.

Nvidia doesnt make their gpus like legos, it costs effeciency to do so, and they rather have really effecient chips instead.

But it means nvidia cant make custom chips without them designing the intire chip from the ground up, and it takeing years and costing a fortune.

With AMD they can litterly ask a customer what they want, write it down, go to a pc, and put int X units of said amount + Y units of said amount, and basically start production almost instantly.

They designed their technology to be like legos. They can add and remove parts, really really easily. They did this hopeing to win alot of customers that wanted their own custom designs.

 

With nvidia if you buy a chip from them, your not getting your own "special" version of a chip from them, unless your paying out the arse for it.

Which is why if nintendo went Nvidia, its very likely whatever chip they get is 100% a match for what nvidia is releaseing for other stuff.

Ei. Tegra X2 , not a version of it specialised to suit Nintendo.

 

AMD could make a mobile ARM cpu if you wanted it.

I don't think it's that simple, processors that are supposed to be in tablets/phones still require a different know how and priorities, and the only chip AMD has that would meet Nintendo's thermal needs would be the Mullins chip, which is way behind the Tegra. Nvidia has been working on Tegra for years, AMD decided to bail on mobile chips a few years ago. 

In all honesty I don't think AMD was even in Nintendo's final 2-3 choices. It was probably Nvidia vs PowerVR/Imaginiation vs. Qualcomm (Snapdragon) or DMP/Pica (3DS guys). These are the leading companies in mobile tech. 

Nintendo likely got a sweet price on the Nvidia chips because Nvidia needed a supply win for the Tegra technology badly. Self driving cars aren't going to become a mass market product for another several years at least. 

There are also other things that Nvidia does that are pretty important to a mobile chip, like their tiling approach can save Nintendo massively in memory bandwidth ... which is vitally important for a mobile chip. 



Tiling is a imagination technologies /powervr ip so Nvidia licenses it from them. I have a feeling they may have licensed it too, to ARM so tile based rendering is pretty common on many mobile chips.

Nvidia are renowned or being horrible to work with. I hope Nintendo have a very clever agreement that allows reduced royalties as the technology ages. Something Microsoft forgot to do and were screwed over by Nvidia.

Also I think Nintendo will be happy to take a lower performing chip if it saves money due to higher yields or the tablet cooling is minimal.

Lets not forgot in the end the latte gpu was shown to be only 176 gflops plus also the wii gpu included on top that might add another 12 gflops and very lower cpu performance. Also terrible memory bandwidth apart from the esram. The wii u was truly hopeless hardware at a ridiculous retail price for such weak tech.

I'm not a fan of the NX concept but it will be very easy to outperform wii u even as a portable device in 2016/7.

Nintendo like cheap ass hardware they can make a huge margin on.



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Rogers's track record isn't perfect, but I do believe her rumors have been correct quite often, so I take what she says here seriously.

And I must say, as a portable gamer and as a Nintendo fan, I can't help but feel very worried over this. It seems far less logical then the rumors being floated last year of a console that is just built to have easy porting and cross play with a portable system that has similar specs. I mean, by trying to make a portable with enough power to double as a game console? That just wreaks of trying to do too much with too little. And these rumors bear that out: only 32 gigs of built in internal memory, for a system with a max game card size of 32 gigs (which itself will keep the NX from getting the bigger console games of its competitors) simultaneously makes sense, and yet is still ridiculous. This will make SD cards a virtual requirement for digital gaming, and even then the only cards that will offer enough space to hold a large number of retail titles are going to be ridiculously expensive for at least the next several years. And that's assuming Nintendo will FINALLY release a console that can naturally utilize SDXC cards without some risky formatting trick.

And of course the battery life is going to suck, given the rumored size and potential power: even something that is less powerful than an Xbox One, but still capable of running current gen only games like Dragon Quest 11 and Sonic 2017 is going to drain the battery. And of COURSE the system, being a portable, will still be far less powerful than it's competitors, which will limit its appeal to third parties, which will result in less software, forcing Nintendo to produce the bulk of the system's software, thus limiting its appeal.

I do hope there is something else to this that Rogers just isn't aware of, like the usage of a Tegra 2 chip, a supplemental computing device in the base to make it more powerful in TV mode, or SOMETHING, because otherwise I'm not entirely sure how this thing is going to do all that well.



bonzobanana said:
Tiling is a imagination technologies /powervr ip so Nvidia licenses it from them. I have a feeling they may have licensed it too, to ARM so tile based rendering is pretty common on many mobile chips.

Nvidia are renowned or being horrible to work with. I hope Nintendo have a very clever agreement that allows reduced royalties as the technology ages. Something Microsoft forgot to do and were screwed over by Nvidia.

Also I think Nintendo will be happy to take a lower performing chip if it saves money due to higher yields or the tablet cooling is minimal.

Lets not forgot in the end the latte gpu was shown to be only 176 gflops plus also the wii gpu included on top that might add another 12 gflops and very lower cpu performance. Also terrible memory bandwidth apart from the esram. The wii u was truly hopeless hardware at a ridiculous retail price for such weak tech.

I'm not a fan of the NX concept but it will be very easy to outperform wii u even as a portable device in 2016/7.

Nintendo like cheap ass hardware they can make a huge margin on.

AMD doesn't have the tech for Nintendo, it probably would've taken them a lot longer to make a mobile chip. They are several years behind Nvidia and Power VR and others in terms of making MOBILE chips. 

PowerVR/Imagination have the tech sure, but they're not desperate for business as they have some small company called Apple or something that they work with. 

Nvidia made the most sense as they have the tech ready to go and several gens of testing on it but badly need a vendor. 

Nintendo likely got a very, very sweet deal simply because Nvidia doesn't have any leverage here, so past Nvidia deals are irrelevant. 



So where is Mother 3 again?



melbye said:
So where is Mother 3 again?

It's coming.  And there is a playable female Link in it.



JWeinCom said:
melbye said:
So where is Mother 3 again?

It's coming.  And there is a playable female Link in it.

I thought it was that Tingle was going to be the lead character.