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Forums - Politics Discussion - How are white people supposed to feel about their own race?

Just because someone how has similar pigment in their skin does something completely fucked up doesn't mean that they are ambassadors for everyone with similar features. We must all recognize injustice but be more surgical in placing blame on that individual. If a black man robs a store and shots a cop, he doesn't become the ambassador for all black people. On the extreme side of the spectrum, Nazi genocide and ideologies aren't definitive of who white people are.



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CGI-Quality said:
SpokenTruth said:

You're not a minority, are you?

Definitely not a minority.

Because I think you're taking this too far here (and no, Don, I do not agree with a lot of what you're saying), help me understand the significance of him being (or not being) a minority. Can he not have an opinion on the matter?

And you are totally free (and even incoraged) to disagree.

And the point on the pride movement I was making is that a lot of the people that arrange those and are vocal about it demand special threatment and compensations. The people themselves that are there are mostly celebrating their heritage, and there is nothing wrong in that.

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

I was born white skinned, but 3/4 of my great grandparents were black slaves. So want to assume again?

Don, that doesn't make you a minority (at least not in the US it wouldn't).  That said, I don't know how they divide racial or ethnic heritage in Brazil too well.

Further, I can't say how well minorities are treated in Brazil nor what the motivations are for minority driven events in Brazil.  But what I've spoken of is certainly relevant in the US.  Those who do want special privilages and treatment or reparations are a minority of a minority and do not represent the overall intentions behind such events and communal pride.  It's all about achieving against the odds.  Not a stance of superiorty (as is the case with white pride) or a demand for special treatment (just equal treatment).

In USA it does, you have the "one drop of blood" thing. I could even show a report that surfaced in Brazil about a girl that tanned her skin and pretended to be black (because she identified as one) and were kicked of the movement while a white guy were accepted in some decades before because he had one ancestor that was black.

Now tell me how I wouldn't be from that minority having 3/4 of my heritage coming straight from slaves, only because my skin is white, while my hair, teeths, eye color and even a lot of my facial features and even muscular build are mostly from african heritage... my brother that happen to be brown skinned them would be a minority them?

In Brazil we are more on the "how do you classify yourself on your heritage", because besides some more recent immigrants (like chinese, korean, small part of japanese) most of the population have mixed heritage, we estimate that about 93% of our population have african heritage (even ignoring the "we all originated from Africa" part).

So in here the movements try to frame it more on the color of the skin than on the dna itself, which is idiotic when talking about history and historic debt.

And sorry to break your bubble, but the vocal part of the minorities are the ones that use (and sometimes set) those movements exactly to request special privileges, and guess what, being the vocal of the group they sometimes get what they want while using the others as leverage.



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Acknowledge that there is a thing called "white privilege" and that it is effecting the lives of non-white people everyday. Then they can be as proud as they want. Some are unconscious of white privilege... and then there are those who completely reject its existence.

I love this paper on the list of 50 things white people can do that other races cannot.
http://www.cirtl.net/files/PartI_CreatingAwareness_WhitePrivilegeUnpackingtheInvisibleKnapsack.pdf



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

DonFerrari said:

And you are totally free (and even incoraged) to disagree.

And the point on the pride movement I was making is that a lot of the people that arrange those and are vocal about it demand special threatment and compensations. The people themselves that are there are mostly celebrating their heritage, and there is nothing wrong in that.

In USA it does, you have the "one drop of blood" thing. I could even show a report that surfaced in Brazil about a girl that tanned her skin and pretended to be black (because she identified as one) and were kicked of the movement while a white guy were accepted in some decades before because he had one ancestor that was black.

Now tell me how I wouldn't be from that minority having 3/4 of my heritage coming straight from slaves, only because my skin is white, while my hair, teeths, eye color and even a lot of my facial features and even muscular build are mostly from african heritage... my brother that happen to be brown skinned them would be a minority them?

In Brazil we are more on the "how do you classify yourself on your heritage", because besides some more recent immigrants (like chinese, korean, small part of japanese) most of the population have mixed heritage, we estimate that about 93% of our population have african heritage (even ignoring the "we all originated from Africa" part).

So in here the movements try to frame it more on the color of the skin than on the dna itself, which is idiotic when talking about history and historic debt.

And sorry to break your bubble, but the vocal part of the minorities are the ones that use (and sometimes set) those movements exactly to request special privileges, and guess what, being the vocal of the group they sometimes get what they want while using the others as leverage.

I don't see any bubble breaking here, you're making a lot of assumptions. There have been many times vocal parts of minorities (sometimes even agressively) demanded measures for equal treatment, but I know very few if any meaningful instances where priveleges were demanded.



My daughter is part Chinese, Dutch, English, German, Peruvian, and Welsh. What sort of effed up pride is she supposed to feel...???



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AbbathTheGrim said:

When they look in the mirror and recognize their race, what are the correct and acceptable feelings white people should feel towards their own race?

Do you believe white people cannot feel pride about their own race without that pride implying racism?

Is pride in your own race only ok when that pride comes from being a minority and being an oppressed race?

How do you think white people should feel about their own race?

Yo, what "color" are you?

How do you feel about "your race?"



hatmoza said:

Acknowledge that there is a thing called "white privilege" and that it is effecting the lives of non-white people everyday. Then they can be as proud as they want. Some are unconscious of white privilege... and then there are those who completely reject its existence.

I love this paper on the list of 50 things white people can do that other races cannot.
http://www.cirtl.net/files/PartI_CreatingAwareness_WhitePrivilegeUnpackingtheInvisibleKnapsack.pdf

I'm here thinking that's a list about systematic advantages white people as a whole have (like how a white people back then were the only ones allowed to sit in the front of a bus and if there were no other seats except in the back, they were entitled to ask a black person to stand up and give up their seat).

Instead, I'm getting:  

"I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color."

" I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race."

" I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race."

" I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race."
I could easily dismantle every one of these silly statements (including the rest), but that'd be one long post. This looks like something buzzfeed would make. 


They probably don't feel anything. Specially if they grew up/live in mostly anglo populated areas.

The whole world goes around the white men, they're universally considered the most attractive, privileged, so on and so forth, but they're also expected to cope with whatever the minorities want and not do anything even if there's nothing wrong with speaking up.

They probably are indifferent towards their own race and don't look past that when it comes to themselves. But it isn't good to generalize.



Moonlighter said:
hatmoza said:

snip-

I'm here thinking that's a list about systematic advantages white people as a whole have (like how a white people back then were the only ones allowed to sit in the front of a bus and if there were no other seats except in the back, they were entitled to ask a black person to stand up and give up their seat).

Instead, I'm getting:  

"I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color."

" I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race."

" I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race."

" I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race."
I could easily dismantle every one of these silly statements (including the rest), but that'd be one long post. This looks like something buzzfeed would make. 

Peggy is a reaserch scientist and Harvard PhD student... and she's white. For you to dismiss her work as something from buzzfeed actually makes me very interested in seeing you "dismantling" all 50 points one by one.

I look forward to it.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

SpokenTruth said:

You are correct that each is minor and that there are far larger privileges not noted.  However, taken as a whole, you can see how added up they paint a picture of one group that can go through life without certain hinderences that another group must endure. 

I'll take one of the points you quoted for consideration.  Imagine a white employee showing up late.  A white boss may ask what delayed him.  If the employee were black, the white boss write off being late simply for no other reason than the employee is black.  Imagine how that and countless other daily enounters must feel to a person when any negative situation is relegated to the circumstance of their skin color.

Since when does everything boil down to skin color? Seems a bit judgemental to assume most white bosses would ask only a white person why they were late and write off a black person completely because of his skin color. I'm kind of glad you brought it up though. I could make the same argument where there is a black boss and how he asks the black man why he was late and writes off the white man coming in late. These arguments I'm hearing are black and white (one or the other), it isn't taking into consideration other possible reasons.