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Forums - Nintendo - Who will provide the NX GPU?

 

Who is making the NX GPU

nVida 187 41.19%
 
AMD 210 46.26%
 
Silicon Graphics Inc 16 3.52%
 
Sony (the power of the Cell!!!) 41 9.03%
 
Total:454
Soundwave said:
Using a completely different company's GPU as a "placeholder" makes little sense.

It really doesn't ... 

Nintendo has the option of putting out a gfx API that abstracts hardware implementation details much like how Sony kept their shading language open (OK so maybe they would have had to revert a few changes like assuming fully bindless resources and cut back on a few ISA intrinsics or the tiled resources implementation but a lot of the standard was still relatively portable.) ... 

Who's to say Nintendo wouldn't push out the equivalent of something like DirectX is for PC while they can still experiment on different hardware configurations when the NX platform specific code path still worked on the final machine regardless of whoever the GPU vendor is ?! 

It's not like Nintendo is absolutely stuck with that particular hardware vendor when they first create their dev kits plus it's not a good idea to expose hardware specific implementations early on and that especially applies for Nvidia when they make very aggressive GPU ISA changes that would possibly hurt Nintendo's chances of upgrading to the Pascal microarchitecture for the NX ... 

First gfx API =/= Last gfx API



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fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:
Using a completely different company's GPU as a "placeholder" makes little sense.

It really doesn't ... 

Nintendo has the option of putting out a gfx API that abstracts hardware implementation details much like how Sony kept their shading language open (OK so maybe they would have had to revert a few changes like assuming fully bindless resources and cut back on a few ISA intrinsics or the tiled resources implementation but a lot of the standard was still relatively portable.) ... 

Who's to say Nintendo wouldn't push out the equivalent of something like DirectX is for PC while they can still experiment on different hardware configurations when the NX platform specific code path still worked on the final machine regardless of whoever the GPU vendor is ?! 

It's not like Nintendo is absolutely stuck with that particular hardware vendor when they first create their dev kits plus it's not a good idea to expose hardware specific implementations early on and that especially applies for Nvidia when they make very aggressive GPU ISA changes that would possibly hurt Nintendo's chances of upgrading to the Pascal microarchitecture for the NX ... 

First gfx API =/= Last gfx API

Why do people even think Nvidia is some bad way to go? They have probably the best graphics engineers in the business (helps not being broke like AMD is, so you can pay your staff). 

Nvidia is a good partner for Nintendo, their experience with the Tegra line will be invaluable and their Pascal tech is fantastic and ready to roll. Also Nintendo's technology head was former director of engineering at Nvidia. 



Soundwave said:

Why do people even think Nvidia is some bad way to go? They have probably the best graphics engineers in the business (helps not being broke like AMD is, so you can pay your staff). 

Nvidia is a good partner for Nintendo, their experience with the Tegra line will be invaluable and their Pascal tech is fantastic and ready to roll. Also Nintendo's technology head was former director of engineering at Nvidia. 

Why people think Nvidia is a bad way to go is because of their bad history with consoles ...

Nvidia probably does have the best graphics engineers and scientists but they have yet to prove themselves that their truly superior when it comes to low powered chips like the ones that Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, or Arm produces ... 

Just because the lead engineer at Nintendo Technology Development once worked at Nvidia 8 years ago doesn't mean that he's in their pockets ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

Why do people even think Nvidia is some bad way to go? They have probably the best graphics engineers in the business (helps not being broke like AMD is, so you can pay your staff). 

Nvidia is a good partner for Nintendo, their experience with the Tegra line will be invaluable and their Pascal tech is fantastic and ready to roll. Also Nintendo's technology head was former director of engineering at Nvidia. 

Why people think Nvidia is a bad way to go is because of their bad history with consoles ...

Nvidia probably does have the best graphics engineers and scientists but they have yet to prove themselves that their truly superior when it comes to low powered chips like the ones that Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, or Arm produces ... 

Just because the lead engineer at Nintendo Technology Development once worked at Nvidia 8 years ago doesn't mean that he's in their pockets ... 

I had plenty of fun with my XBox and PS3, if there were design flaws with those machines it was Sony and MS' fault, Nvidia just gave them what they were contracted to give. 

I'm pretty sure Nintendo did vet Samsung, Qualcomm, and ARM (though Nvidia's Tegra SOC already uses ARM) ... Nvidia looks like they gave Nintendo the best overall package. It's quite possible for GAMING purposes Nvidia provided the best performance as Nvidia also has know how in dedicated graphics GPUs strictly for gaming, whereas Qualcomm doesn't really. 

And sure Nintendo's technology head having a pre-existing relationship with Nvidia probably didn't hurt negotiations, he likely knows a lot of people over there and if he vouched for Nvidia, it could have pushed their bid to the top of the pile. 



dongo8 said:

Regarding all this real quick - there is a new article with Nintendo News (and they have only been reporting on things AFTER sourcing to make sure pretty legit) that the NX IS going to use the Tegra X2 (Codenamed Parker) and if that is true, it is more powerful than the Xbox One and the PS4

 

Edit, sourcing: http://segmentnext.com/2016/08/17/report-nintendo-nx-is-using-tegra-x2-chip-more-powerful-than-x1/

                          https://mynintendonews.com/2016/08/17/rumour-nintendo-nx-to-use-tegra-x2-chip/

More powerful than the Xbox One and Playstation 4? Hows about No.

archbrix said:

I don't think the Scorpio and Neo power levels are that important because software still has to run on the vanilla versions of their respective counterparts.  That is, as long as that vision stays true; we'll see how long Sony and Microsoft stick to those plans if their new systems take off, but that would tick off a lot of people if Scorpio/Neo start receiving exclusive games too soon.

They are important.
There isn't a dramatic feature difference between the Xbox One and Scorpio and Playstation 4 and Neo, not from a graphics standpoint anyway, so things should be able to scale pretty easily.
But the main difference is how many effects can be run at once and how they can also all be dialed up to 11.

Soundwave said:

I had plenty of fun with my XBox and PS3, if there were design flaws with those machines it was Sony and MS' fault, Nvidia just gave them what they were contracted to give. 

I'm pretty sure Nintendo did vet Samsung, Qualcomm, and ARM (though Nvidia's Tegra SOC already uses ARM) ... Nvidia looks like they gave Nintendo the best overall package. It's quite possible for GAMING purposes Nvidia provided the best performance as Nvidia also has know how in dedicated graphics GPUs strictly for gaming, whereas Qualcomm doesn't really. 

And sure Nintendo's technology head having a pre-existing relationship with Nvidia probably didn't hurt negotiations, he likely knows a lot of people over there and if he vouched for Nvidia, it could have pushed their bid to the top of the pile. 

nVidia also priced their GPU higher which likely contributed to the Playstation 3's higher prince on and after launch.

Converesly... Where-as AMD was more than happy to work with IBM to integrate it's GPU technology in combination with IBM's processor technology to create a single chip... nVidia never allowed for Sony to do the same, so the Playstation 3 was always a dual-chip console, that adds to heat and costs.

Now it could be argued that because Tegra is a flop and has hardly any design wins, they might be willing to throw away some margins, but I highly doubt it.

Soundwave said:

Why do people even think Nvidia is some bad way to go? They have probably the best graphics engineers in the business (helps not being broke like AMD is, so you can pay your staff). 

Nvidia is a good partner for Nintendo, their experience with the Tegra line will be invaluable and their Pascal tech is fantastic and ready to roll. Also Nintendo's technology head was former director of engineering at Nvidia. 

Because of Price/Performance, at every performance level, AMD is cheaper. You get more performance for every dollar you spend with AMD.
Consoles are cost-sensitive devices, every dollar counts.

Tegra is a horrible chip for AAA gaming.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

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Pemalite said:
dongo8 said:

Regarding all this real quick - there is a new article with Nintendo News (and they have only been reporting on things AFTER sourcing to make sure pretty legit) that the NX IS going to use the Tegra X2 (Codenamed Parker) and if that is true, it is more powerful than the Xbox One and the PS4

 

Edit, sourcing: http://segmentnext.com/2016/08/17/report-nintendo-nx-is-using-tegra-x2-chip-more-powerful-than-x1/

                          https://mynintendonews.com/2016/08/17/rumour-nintendo-nx-to-use-tegra-x2-chip/

More powerful than the Xbox One and Playstation 4? Hows about No.

archbrix said:

I don't think the Scorpio and Neo power levels are that important because software still has to run on the vanilla versions of their respective counterparts.  That is, as long as that vision stays true; we'll see how long Sony and Microsoft stick to those plans if their new systems take off, but that would tick off a lot of people if Scorpio/Neo start receiving exclusive games too soon.

They are important.
There isn't a dramatic feature difference between the Xbox One and Scorpio and Playstation 4 and Neo, not from a graphics standpoint anyway, so things should be able to scale pretty easily.
But the main difference is how many effects can be run at once and how they can also all be dialed up to 11.

Soundwave said:

I had plenty of fun with my XBox and PS3, if there were design flaws with those machines it was Sony and MS' fault, Nvidia just gave them what they were contracted to give. 

I'm pretty sure Nintendo did vet Samsung, Qualcomm, and ARM (though Nvidia's Tegra SOC already uses ARM) ... Nvidia looks like they gave Nintendo the best overall package. It's quite possible for GAMING purposes Nvidia provided the best performance as Nvidia also has know how in dedicated graphics GPUs strictly for gaming, whereas Qualcomm doesn't really. 

And sure Nintendo's technology head having a pre-existing relationship with Nvidia probably didn't hurt negotiations, he likely knows a lot of people over there and if he vouched for Nvidia, it could have pushed their bid to the top of the pile. 

nVidia also priced their GPU higher which likely contributed to the Playstation 3's higher prince on and after launch.

Converesly... Where-as AMD was more than happy to work with IBM to integrate it's GPU technology in combination with IBM's processor technology to create a single chip... nVidia never allowed for Sony to do the same, so the Playstation 3 was always a dual-chip console, that adds to heat and costs.

Now it could be argued that because Tegra is a flop and has hardly any design wins, they might be willing to throw away some margins, but I highly doubt it.

Soundwave said:

Why do people even think Nvidia is some bad way to go? They have probably the best graphics engineers in the business (helps not being broke like AMD is, so you can pay your staff). 

Nvidia is a good partner for Nintendo, their experience with the Tegra line will be invaluable and their Pascal tech is fantastic and ready to roll. Also Nintendo's technology head was former director of engineering at Nvidia. 

Because of Price/Performance, at every performance level, AMD is cheaper. You get more performance for every dollar you spend with AMD.
Consoles are cost-sensitive devices, every dollar counts.

Tegra is a horrible chip for AAA gaming.

It's impossible to know the price/performance of the Nvidia/Nintendo deal, it's certainly not the same as buying an Nvidia GPU from the store. Semi Accurate was the first to say Nvidia for NX, and they were pretty blunt in saying Nintendo got basically a highway robbery of a deal in effect. 

Nvidia is likely willing to take much less to get a valued win for their Tegra line. If/when there is a NX2 they'll be in a better position then to make a better deal or find other vendors if the NX is a success. 

For a hybrid (which seems to be Nintendo's choice), a Nvidia chip is about as good as it was gonna get. Tegra X1 is a decent chip, we probably haven't seen anywhere close to what it could actually do because it's never had a software developer like Nintendo optimize a game specifically for it from the ground up. 

But a Pascal based Tegra will likely be considerably better than that, if Nintendo is using a Pascal Tegra, I don't think there's a mobile chip on the planet right now that would be better for performance and still fit into a reasonable price range. 

Whether you like the concept of a hybrid is a different debate, but given what Nintendo wants to make, Nvidia is an excellent choice. 



JEMC said:
Miyamotoo said:

And where exatly is saying that some dev kits for NX dont have fans!?

I'm not sure if your reading comprehension is as bad as it seems, which is very unlikely, or you just refuse to see what's in front of your eyes because it doesn't fit in your vision.

If Eurogamer has various sources talking to them about the NX prototype, and when they make an article about it they think it's worth mentioning that one and only one of those sources talked about a fan powered dev kit, it means that the rest of the sources didn't confirm that, which in turn means that their units didn't have one.

Now, you can believe it or not, it's not my problem and, quite honestly, I don't care. We can move this fun discussion forward or you can insist in this useless point and kill the fun.

So like I thought, there is nothing written that any dev kit don't have fans. Basicly other sources did not specify if dev kit have fan or not, fan was specify just from on source, but that doesn't mean that other dev kits dont have fan also, and from some reason you insist that other dev kits dont have fans even you dont have nothing that points that.

If one dev kit has fan, its most likely that all available dev kits at that moment also have fans.



Soundwave said:

It's impossible to know the price/performance of the Nvidia/Nintendo deal, it's certainly not the same as buying an Nvidia GPU from the store. Semi Accurate was the first to say Nvidia for NX, and they were pretty blunt in saying Nintendo got basically a highway robbery of a deal in effect.

Nvidia is likely willing to take much less to get a valued win for their Tegra line. If/when there is a NX2 they'll be in a better position then to make a better deal or find other vendors if the NX is a success.

Right on. We don't know the financial details.
nVidia was likely wanting a design win for Tegra as it's been a pretty big flop all things considered.

And if you have a successfull design win, then chances are other manufacturers get onboard.

With that said, don't believe everything you read at Semi-Accurate.


Soundwave said:

For a hybrid (which seems to be Nintendo's choice), a Nvidia chip is about as good as it was gonna get. Tegra X1 is a decent chip, we probably haven't seen anywhere close to what it could actually do because it's never had a software developer like Nintendo optimize a game specifically for it from the ground up. 

But a Pascal based Tegra will likely be considerably better than that, if Nintendo is using a Pascal Tegra, I don't think there's a mobile chip on the planet right now that would be better for performance and still fit into a reasonable price range. 

Whether you like the concept of a hybrid is a different debate, but given what Nintendo wants to make, Nvidia is an excellent choice.


Tegra doesn't have the best CPU performance, that's important for gaming as well you know.

Adreno 530 is also able to give Tegra X1 a good run for it's money, the main reason why Tegra seems to smash the competition in devices like the Shield TV is basically attributed to higher thermal ceiling which allows for higher clocks... If the device is a "Hybrid" then you need to account for the mobile form factors lower thermal ceiling.

And we can't forget about the Mali G71/Bifrost either, which is set to be able to rival Tegra in terms of single precision compute.






www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

It's impossible to know the price/performance of the Nvidia/Nintendo deal, it's certainly not the same as buying an Nvidia GPU from the store. Semi Accurate was the first to say Nvidia for NX, and they were pretty blunt in saying Nintendo got basically a highway robbery of a deal in effect.

Nvidia is likely willing to take much less to get a valued win for their Tegra line. If/when there is a NX2 they'll be in a better position then to make a better deal or find other vendors if the NX is a success.

Right on. We don't know the financial details.
nVidia was likely wanting a design win for Tegra as it's been a pretty big flop all things considered.

And if you have a successfull design win, then chances are other manufacturers get onboard.

With that said, don't believe everything you read at Semi-Accurate.


Soundwave said:

For a hybrid (which seems to be Nintendo's choice), a Nvidia chip is about as good as it was gonna get. Tegra X1 is a decent chip, we probably haven't seen anywhere close to what it could actually do because it's never had a software developer like Nintendo optimize a game specifically for it from the ground up. 

But a Pascal based Tegra will likely be considerably better than that, if Nintendo is using a Pascal Tegra, I don't think there's a mobile chip on the planet right now that would be better for performance and still fit into a reasonable price range. 

Whether you like the concept of a hybrid is a different debate, but given what Nintendo wants to make, Nvidia is an excellent choice.


Tegra doesn't have the best CPU performance, that's important for gaming as well you know.

Adreno 530 is also able to give Tegra X1 a good run for it's money, the main reason why Tegra seems to smash the competition in devices like the Shield TV is basically attributed to higher thermal ceiling which allows for higher clocks... If the device is a "Hybrid" then you need to account for the mobile form factors lower thermal ceiling.

And we can't forget about the Mali G71/Bifrost either, which is set to be able to rival Tegra in terms of single precision compute.



Isn't that kinda dependant on the CPU cores that the SOC uses? The rumor is the ARM CPU that Nintendo could use would be the ARM A72, which would be quite powerful. 

LCGeek from NeoGaf has said actually the NX CPU is better than the PS4 CPU. We'll see if that's true or not. 

Adreno can give X1 a run for its money, but it looks like Nvidia is the one that got the nod. For a *hybrid* device it's unlikely there are many options better than what Nvidia will be able to do with a Pascal based Tegra, and unlike Adreno or PowerVR or whoever .... Nvidia doesn't have any phone or tablet partner win ... which means Nintendo likely is getting their chip from Nvidia for cheaper than what a company like Adreno would give it for. Nvidia's Tegra line needs this a hell of a lot more than Adreno or PowerVR do. 



Miyamotoo said:
JEMC said:

I'm not sure if your reading comprehension is as bad as it seems, which is very unlikely, or you just refuse to see what's in front of your eyes because it doesn't fit in your vision.

If Eurogamer has various sources talking to them about the NX prototype, and when they make an article about it they think it's worth mentioning that one and only one of those sources talked about a fan powered dev kit, it means that the rest of the sources didn't confirm that, which in turn means that their units didn't have one.

Now, you can believe it or not, it's not my problem and, quite honestly, I don't care. We can move this fun discussion forward or you can insist in this useless point and kill the fun.

So like I thought, there is nothing written that any dev kit don't have fans. Basicly other sources did not specify if dev kit have fan or not, fan was specify just from on source, but that doesn't mean that other dev kits dont have fan also, and from some reason you insist that other dev kits dont have fans even you dont have nothing that points that.

If one dev kit has fan, its most likely that all available dev kits at that moment also have fans.

So, for you, the fact that Eurogamer clearly, specifically, mention that only one of their sources had a unit with a fan, is not proof that the other sources didn't confirm that.

Ok, believe whatever you want. I'm not wasting my time anymore.



Please excuse my bad English.

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