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Forums - Nintendo - MCV: NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4

Miyamotoo said:
curl-6 said:

It will be very interesting to see if Nintendo moves to a PBR solution for NX. Also, I'm curious what they'll do in regards to resolution; whether they'll stick with 720p to play up other aspects of the graphics over Wii U, or step it up to 1080p, or maybe 900p as a compromise. 

Infos saying that X1 have around 0.5 TFLOPS and that's basically around 3x more power than Wii U have, so we can assume that NX will be at least 2x more times powerful than Wii U, and that means when docked NX will most likely have 1080p resolution on TV, even Wii U have some 1080p games like WW HD or Smash Bros.

I dont think they will go for 900p because that's not standard resolution and they always aiming at standard resolution, GC/Wii were 480p, Wii U 720p and NX most likely 1080p when its docked. Hanhdled only resolution will most likly be 540p or 720p.

Xbox One is 1.31 TF.



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daredevil.shark said:
Miyamotoo said:

Infos saying that X1 have around 0.5 TFLOPS and that's basically around 3x more power than Wii U have, so we can assume that NX will be at least 2x more times powerful than Wii U, and that means when docked NX will most likely have 1080p resolution on TV, even Wii U have some 1080p games like WW HD or Smash Bros.

I dont think they will go for 900p because that's not standard resolution and they always aiming at standard resolution, GC/Wii were 480p, Wii U 720p and NX most likely 1080p when its docked. Hanhdled only resolution will most likly be 540p or 720p.

Xbox One is 1.31 TF.

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.



Miyamotoo said:
daredevil.shark said:

Xbox One is 1.31 TF.

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.

I don't care what Wii U is. It's a common knowledge that Xbox One is 1.31 TF. No need to downplay Xbox One in favor of Wii U which is leagues behind Xbox One in terms of performance.



daredevil.shark said:
Miyamotoo said:

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.

I don't care what Wii U is. It's a common knowledge that Xbox One is 1.31 TF. No need to downplay Xbox One in favor of Wii U which is leagues behind Xbox One in terms of performance.

Nobody talks about XB1, we comparing posible power of NX compared to Wii U, Nintendo games on Wii U are 720p/60fps and they are even some 1080p games, that means that if NX is 2-3x more powerful than Wii U, Nintendo games will most likly run at 1080p resolution when NX is docked, and that has nothing with power of XB1.



daredevil.shark said:
Miyamotoo said:

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.

I don't care what Wii U is. It's a common knowledge that Xbox One is 1.31 TF. No need to downplay Xbox One in favor of Wii U which is leagues behind Xbox One in terms of performance.

Pretty sure he's talking about the Tegra when he says X1, not XB1.  Of course, these guys thinking they're going to get 2x-3x the power of the Wii U on the NX, in terms of real world performance, are kidding themselves.  With the power draw restrictions, I'm guessing we'll see performance that slightly outdoes the Wii U.

It's a shame they didn't go home console, with a handheld controller.  That would have allowed them more power and disc B/C.  I was hoping to buy it instead of a Wii U.  Guess I'll get a Wii U if it drops to $199.  Or pick one up used.



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thismeintiel said:
daredevil.shark said:

I don't care what Wii U is. It's a common knowledge that Xbox One is 1.31 TF. No need to downplay Xbox One in favor of Wii U which is leagues behind Xbox One in terms of performance.

Pretty sure he's talking about the Tegra when he says X1, not XB1.  

Of course, these guys thinking they're going to get 2x-3x the power of the Wii U on the NX, in terms of real world performance, are kidding themselves.  With the power draw restrictions, I'm guessing we'll see performance that slightly outdoes the Wii U.

It's a shame they didn't go home console, with a handheld controller.  That would have allowed them more power and disc B/C.  I was hoping to buy it instead of a Wii U.  Guess I'll get a Wii U if it drops to $199.  Or pick one up used.

Thank you for clarification.

 

Eurogamer article specifically says Tegra X1 chip dev kits, that are actively cooled and loud.

You cant talk about power restrictions and completely ignoring base unit, maybe handheld only have lower clocks and some parts of hardware locked while they are full unlocked and at higher clocked when they are used with base unit and playing on TV, or maybe base unit itslef gaves aditional power for TV play and 1080p.

Also, article and other sources stated that there are good chances for X2 chip and Pascal architecture for final hardware, that means much less power draw than X1 chip and most likly better performance.

 

I dont think Wii U will go to $199, they expecting to sell only 700k Wii U console this fiscal year, that basically means no price cut and discounted console in near future.



My mistake. Thanks for rectifying me.



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

It will be very interesting to see if Nintendo moves to a PBR solution for NX. Also, I'm curious what they'll do in regards to resolution; whether they'll stick with 720p to play up other aspects of the graphics over Wii U, or step it up to 1080p, or maybe 900p as a compromise. 

I think they can stick in higher quality AA and just mostly call it a day since the Maxwell architecture has some very advanced hardware features that are not found in consoles like target independent multisampling, post-depth coverage, overriding coverage sample mask via pixel shader, coverage mask value to colour conversion, and last but not least hardware accelerated conservative raster ... 

Quality of pixels > Quantity of pixels IMO ...

I'll take a 540p image that is offline quality over an image that's rendered at 16K but has the same framework of a last gen or even a current gen game ...

Mario Kart 8 graphics with high quality AA would be pretty good in my opinion.



Miyamotoo said:
curl-6 said:

It will be very interesting to see if Nintendo moves to a PBR solution for NX. Also, I'm curious what they'll do in regards to resolution; whether they'll stick with 720p to play up other aspects of the graphics over Wii U, or step it up to 1080p, or maybe 900p as a compromise. 

Infos saying that X1 have around 0.5 TFLOPS and that's basically around 3x more power than Wii U have, so we can assume that NX will be at least 2x more times powerful than Wii U, and that means when docked NX will most likely have 1080p resolution on TV, even Wii U have some 1080p games like WW HD or Smash Bros.

I dont think they will go for 900p because that's not standard resolution and they always aiming at standard resolution, GC/Wii were 480p, Wii U 720p and NX most likely 1080p when its docked. Hanhdled only resolution will most likly be 540p or 720p.

None of the above.

Gflops/Tflops/Cats generally has no direct correllation to resolution and nor can you use it to compare COMPLETELY different processor Architectures. (Aka. Wii U vs NX)

The NX will likely not have the texturing, bandwidth, geometry or be backed up by enough Rops for 900P or 1080P resolution.

Tegra is extremely Half/single Precision floating point heavy in it's capabilities, placing compute performance above all else... And let's be realistic. Rendering games are far more than just compute.

It will likely be 720P and below, simpler games might be a little higher, Tegra simply isn't a very capable chip compared to large monolithic multi-billion transister desktop/mobile chips.



Miyamotoo said:
daredevil.shark said:

Xbox One is 1.31 TF.

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.

A Graphics processor with less TF can beat a Graphics processor with more TF.

Miyamotoo said:

You cant talk about power restrictions and completely ignoring base unit, maybe handheld only have lower clocks and some parts of hardware locked while they are full unlocked and at higher clocked when they are used with base unit and playing on TV, or maybe base unit itslef gaves aditional power for TV play and 1080p.

Also, article and other sources stated that there are good chances for X2 chip and Pascal architecture for final hardware, that means much less power draw than X1 chip and most likly better performance.


Going to have to set some realistic expectations for you.
We don't wan't another Wii U on our hands where people over hyped things and Nintendo under delivered.

1) We have no idea if there will be performance improvements whilst "Docked" and connected to a TV.

2) 1080P, rather modern 1080P gaming requires significantly more power than Tegra could achieve. Heck, I doubt even dual Tegra chips could do 1080P gaming with fidelity we have come to expect out of this generation.

3) Pascal is a good improvement over Maxwell, it's not game changing though for Tegra.
Tegra X1 was built at 20nm, not 28nm, Tegra "X2" would be built at 16nm.
You aren't going to get the same kind of performance/watt jump we saw on desktop between Maxwell and Pascal as we will see with Tegra X1 and Tegra X2. Not with graphics anyhow, fabrication and physical limitations probably won't allow it.

4) Expect performance less than the Xbox One, Tegra's main draw card is it's compute performance (And even that falls short of the Xbox One), everything else is pretty mediocre.
And let's face it, Xbox One's performance/graphics has been one of extreme criticism this generation... And for good reason.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Infos saying that X1 have around 0.5 TFLOPS and that's basically around 3x more power than Wii U have, so we can assume that NX will be at least 2x more times powerful than Wii U, and that means when docked NX will most likely have 1080p resolution on TV, even Wii U have some 1080p games like WW HD or Smash Bros.

I dont think they will go for 900p because that's not standard resolution and they always aiming at standard resolution, GC/Wii were 480p, Wii U 720p and NX most likely 1080p when its docked. Hanhdled only resolution will most likly be 540p or 720p.

None of the above.

Gflops/Tflops/Cats generally has no direct correllation to resolution and nor can you use it to compare COMPLETELY different processor Architectures. (Aka. Wii U vs NX)

The NX will likely not have the texturing, bandwidth, geometry or be backed up by enough Rops for 900P or 1080P resolution.

Tegra is extremely Half/single Precision floating point heavy in it's capabilities, placing compute performance above all else... And let's be realistic. Rendering games are far more than just compute.

It will likely be 720P and below, simpler games might be a little higher, Tegra simply isn't a very capable chip compared to large monolithic multi-billion transister desktop/mobile chips.



Miyamotoo said:

So? Wii U is 0.176 TF, and infos saying that X1 chip have power of around 0.5 TF.

A Graphics processor with less TF can beat a Graphics processor with more TF.

Miyamotoo said:

You cant talk about power restrictions and completely ignoring base unit, maybe handheld only have lower clocks and some parts of hardware locked while they are full unlocked and at higher clocked when they are used with base unit and playing on TV, or maybe base unit itslef gaves aditional power for TV play and 1080p.

Also, article and other sources stated that there are good chances for X2 chip and Pascal architecture for final hardware, that means much less power draw than X1 chip and most likly better performance.


Going to have to set some realistic expectations for you.
We don't wan't another Wii U on our hands where people over hyped things and Nintendo under delivered.

1) We have no idea if there will be performance improvements whilst "Docked" and connected to a TV.

2) 1080P, rather modern 1080P gaming requires significantly more power than Tegra could achieve. Heck, I doubt even dual Tegra chips could do 1080P gaming with fidelity we have come to expect out of this generation.

3) Pascal is a good improvement over Maxwell, it's not game changing though for Tegra.
Tegra X1 was built at 20nm, not 28nm, Tegra "X2" would be built at 16nm.
You aren't going to get the same kind of performance/watt jump we saw on desktop between Maxwell and Pascal as we will see with Tegra X1 and Tegra X2. Not with graphics anyhow, fabrication and physical limitations probably won't allow it.

4) Expect performance less than the Xbox One, Tegra's main draw card is it's compute performance (And even that falls short of the Xbox One), everything else is pretty mediocre.
And let's face it, Xbox One's performance/graphics has been one of extreme criticism this generation... And for good reason.

We have infos saying that X1 chip is far more powerful and capable cheap than Wii U CPU/GPU, with performance on paper around 3x stronger than Wii Us, and you saying we will again have 720p resolution and below even NX have base unit, and not just only that but there are good chances that NX will actually have Pascal instead of Maxwell.

For the record, I expecting power at least 2-3x stronger than Wii Us, thats around half of power of XB1, I dont expecting XB1 level of power in any case.