Now I've been wanting to write this thread for awhile, but I never got to actually doing it, and sort of forgot about it. But the recent release of the vault-tec DLC  has really disappointed me, and reminded me of just how bad Fallout 4 is compared to the rest of the series. Now to start off, we need to go back to Fallout 3.

Now I was never a big fan of Fallout 2, it was hard as hell, and frankly everything felt tedious. Eventually I just quit, but when I played Fallout 3, I could tell that a lot had changed, and not for the better. The RPG elements in many ways felt ruined; for example, the karma system. When you can measure something like karma in terms of numbers, it makes the game the arbiter of what is good and bad. So while you may think an action that is "bad" is justified, the game doesn't really care. But that wasn't the worst part. "Choice" was really just boiled down to good or bad. Blow up megaton, or don't. Kill a bunch of innocent people, or never ruin their lives. Enslave lots of people in the wasteland, or don't. These are such obvious "good" or "bad" choices, that they feel so lazy. Of course you at least HAD the choice in Fallout 3, which is something Fallout 4 doesn't have. Gameplay was nothing great, though I mean Fallout has always been about the RPG elements. Factions were also useless, as there was only one; sure you could plant the virus in the water for president Eden, but that was just one course of action, and you died at the end anyway (unless you bought broken steel, but no way in hell am I doing that). Perks were also ruined, as many just simply improved your stats. Speech was also severely cut back, and for the most part came to a dice-roll, so what was the point of the checks anyway? Overall, I thought it had stipped a lot from Fallout 2, but it was never a bad game, but only ok in my eyes.

Now time for what I believe was the resurgence of the series, Fallout NV. Made by the developer Obsidian, it was a much improved game (not surprising, since many of the former memebers of Black Isle were part of this development team; oh and they made Fallout 2 btw :)). It reintroduced traits, it reintroduced factions, it had perks that actually mattered (jury-rigging amont one of my favourites), and conversations were fixed, and new options were added. Now I could go into vast detail like I did with my Fallout 3 rant, but anyone who has played NV will know its a FAR better RPG that Fallout 3. Huge amounts of choice were available in this game, and it had more side-quests than Fallout 3 and 4 combined (not sure if thats the case, but it certainly felt that way). It was an amazing game overall, and you NEED to play it whenever you can. Trust me, it'll be well worth the price. :)

Now time for Fallout 4. The game that has effectively ruined most of my favourite RPG elements in my opinion. Remember how I complained about how quests were only about good or bad in Fallout 3? Yeah, that option isn't there in Fallout 4. Its just shoot that guy in the face if he isn't a priority character. Conversation is meaningless, as the game has been made into a shooter! The dialog wheel does a piss attempt at trying to replecate what Bioware did with Mass Effect, and ruins the experience. And many times, those actions won't matter. You can't be diplomatic, you just shoot and go! Thats what the game is about. You remember weapons degredation in Fallout 3 and NV, well now its gone! Suddenly having to worry about weapons breaking doesn't matter, and everything is in tip-top shape! They've also managed to ruin skills, something which is beyond me! And they've also tried to add in this radiant quests, something that comes from Skyrim! This game pisses me off so much, I just want to break my copy of Fallout 4! The DLC with the exception of Far Habour has been piss, so I see why people who spend $50 for the seasonpass would be disappointed. Now the game isn't bad for a SHOOTER with RPG elements (kind of like Borderlands), but Fallout has always been an RPG!!!! At this point, I am DONE with Bethesda. They've managed to ruin my favourite RPG game out there! Its as bad of a disgrace as Mass Effect 3's ending was to me! I can see why some people love the game, but it doesn't appeal to me. It feels like its trying to be like Destiny with it being about loot, but also Minecraft with settlements. While both are fine, I want an RPG, not another Minecraft game! I'm sure many will disagree with me, being as how POPULAR Fallout 4 is, but let me ask you a question. How many TRUE Fallout fans who cared about the RPG elements will this game have lost? Probably a lot. My only hope is that either the next game is made by Obsidian, or Todd Howard arse is left out of any future Fallout games. But both are fantasies, so I guess I'm finished with the series. Its been a great run Fallout, but this was a step too far in the wrong direction. 

Fallout isnt a RPG anymore... its a FPS game. So yes... they ruined Fallout.

I think fallout2 is the best of them.

Them dumbing it down, removeing rpg elements, and makeing it a shooter, has ruined it.

The 4th fallout, isnt as good as the 3rd/NV or the 2nd one.

Absolutely ridiculous that Fallout 4 was chosen for GOTY over Witcher 3.

No they didn't, they gave it another direction and the results, while imperfect, were pretty enjoyable. The reason why Fallout is a mainstream hit is them, if the new games were like the old, they could be good, of course, but they would be probably pretty niche.

Nope, loved fallout 4.

Actually The Witcher 3 won GOTY.

Yeh, that's why I have lost interest in modern single player gaming - tomb raider is now action, hitman is action, splinter cell is action, deus ex is.. shiny dogdung. They are mainstream hits though! Good for them.

This is why I've migrated away from video game RPGs to tabletop RPGs when it comes to WRPG.

tricky question.

If Fallout 4 WASN'T part of the Fallout series, made by some other developer, a new thing- I think it would be considered a pretty good game. But as far as the Fallout series is concerned Fallout 4 is a huge regression.... its much worse than New Vegas and arguably worse than 3

lacks enough zany creative quests, they killed the dialogue wheel, it lacks anywhere near the amount of immersive RPG elements (the factions are just dumb and there is no effect generally on killing certain members), etc. The voiced protagonist also kills the immersion

I voted yes simply because its a much worse quality game compared to New Vegas and they have killed a lot of the RPG elements in favor of a more casual FPS game. However I don't REALLY think the franchise is killed or ruined. Its an OKAY Fallout game. They can fix the problems with the next installment (hopefully).

If they simply went to a more advanced dialogue wheel, more creative quests, MORE factions and game choices in terms of diverging storylines based on your decisions, more effects based on how you treat or don't treat factions and companions- those sort of things being put back into the game could help a TON. hell, even making the voiced protagonist optional would help a lot.

I think the series can be saved. I just worry that Bethesda is losing their way in terms of remaining true to their franchises rather than soley focused on profits. Fallout 4 sold well but I think objectively speaking most would agree its one of the weaker installments in the series. Its bizarre when the decade old Fallout 3 seems like an equally (if not better) game than F4, and New Vegas seems infinitely more creative.

I think they haven't ruined Fallout QUITE yet because everyone deserves one fail, but if the next Fallout release is anything like Fallout 4 then they will have killed the franchise in terms of the older fans. What I don't get is with the amount of work they put in why it would be so hard to throw in more choices and RPG elements? I mean surely they realize that hardcore and casual gamers alike are going to enjoy a Fallout that allows for branching choices and a story where you actually feel in control.

What I'm hoping is they let OBsidian make their own West Coast 'Fallout 4' ala New Vegas/Fallout 3. I doubt it will happen, but Obsidian did insanely well with New Vegas and seems to have a better grasp on what makes Fallout great

ehhh your logic is flawed.

both Fallout 3 and New Vegas were giant hits for their time, and New Vegas is absolutely NOTHING like Fallout 4. Even Fallout 3 is considerably more "RPG-y" than Fallout 4.

The casuals enjoyed the last gen Fallout games, there was no need to dumb down the series so much. There are like no story effecting decisions in Fallout 4 and is basically JUST shooting now. blagh. I will point out that a big reason that Fallout 4 sold so well is because of the huge gap between the last game and the hype that had built. But the hype BUILT because of the popular modding community online and the massive amount of people who have gotten around to playing New Vegas (and 3 to a lesser extent) on older consoles and PC in the last 10 years.

I would say the goodwill from the last few games more or less is what fueled Fallout 4's success, less so its own pedigree. Its not a bad game but its not a great game, and its reviews (both by fans and critics) are not that great

Again though, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are anything but niche. if you're referring to the original Fallout games being 'niche' then, sure, they're top down isometric games made that way due to the time when they were released....

I think you're missing how much of a detraction Fallout 4 is from 3/New Vegas though. it kills a ton of the RPG elements and the dialogue wheel has become borderline retarded with all options resulting in the same thing