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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo have not made an operating profit overall this generation.

Barkley on 16 July 2016
tak13 said:
Barkley said:

How is discussing the earnings of a video games company on a sales website pointless?

A lot of Nintendo fans seemingly coming into the thread saying that because Nintendo have posted profits the past two fiscal years discussing their profits of the overall generation is irrelevant. That's mind blowingly illogical.

"Yeah but they posted profits last two years so you're not allowed to discuss anything before that!!!!"

Yeah, it's not!

However, I call it pointless because of the reason that this thread is based on... My arguments are above!

 

Errr no. You're arguments are only relevant if this was a thread saying Nintendo was going to continue to lose money, no such statement or point has been made in this thread. You basically just say, "Yeah so what they don't usually post losses, they will go back to profit". So?

The reason of this thread is simple, to inform people that believe Nintendo have made a profit overall this generation (like myself before 30 minutes ago) that they have infact not, and to discuss the reasons behind Nintendo's overall loss this generation.



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Miyamotoo on 16 July 2016
Barkley said:

Most people on this site keep stating that the WiiU is profitable for Nintendo even with it's poor performance, however Nintendo has throughout this generation so far actually LOST money overall. People have used it as a primary reason as to why Nintendo shouldn't leave the hardware business, stating that it is still profitable even when performing badly. However if the 3ds cannot cover the damage done by the WiiU then this is clear not the case. Unless they far exceed projections for this coming fiscal year Nintendo will end the generation with a net loss. Hopefully the NX can turn the situation around and return to Nintendo overall making a profit on their platforms.

What do you believe has caused the losses so far this generation? Is the 3ds turning a good profit but it still can't offset the damage done by the WiiU? Are the WiiU losses not THAT bad, but the 3ds isn't profiting as much as it seems? Or is Nintendo losing money in other areas not related to their dedicated hardware?

I had not realised this at all, thanks to ZhugeEX for the image from his twitter.

 

FY 2011/2012     OPERATING LOSS: $459.54 Million

 

FY 2012/2013     OPERATING LOSS: $366 Million

 

FY 2013/2014     OPERATING LOSS: $456 Million

 

FY 2014/2015     OPERATING PROFIT: $207.83 Million

 

FY 2015/2016     OPERATING PROFIT: $148.5 Million

 

FY 2011-2016     OPERATING LOSS: $925.21 Million

(these figures don't seem to PRECISELY line up with the graph, potentially due to changes in the YEN's Value? If these figures are inaccurate if someone could find more accurate figures that would be appreciated.)

 

 

Sorry but you wrong, bottom of line is profit not operating income.

 

 

 

 FY3/2012 FY3/2013 FY3/2014 FY3/2015 FY3/2016
Net sales 647,652 635,422 571,726 549,780 504,459
Operating income -37,320 -36,410 -46,425 24,770 32,881
Ordinary income -60,863 10,482 6,086 70,530 28,790
Profit attributable to owners of parent -43,204 7,099 -23,222 41,843 16,505
Net income per share (yen) -337.86 55.52 -183.59 353.49 137.40
Total assets 1,368,401 1,447,878 1,306,410 1,352,944 1,296,902
Total net assets 1,191,025 1,227,520 1,118,438 1,167,556 1,160,901
Capital adequacy ratio 87.0% 84.8% 85.6% 86.3% 89.5%
Net assets per share (yen) 9,313.15 9,598.22 9,447.00 9,862.52 9,662.73

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/2015_04.html



Nuvendil on 16 July 2016
Fei-Hung said:
Soundwave said:
Welp, this generation is over for Nintendo and they've already got that Pokemon Go money flooding in, so if they're crying about this last generation ... they are crying all the way to the bank.

They are going to be go right back to making ungodly amounts of money over the next five years even if NX is only a middling success.

Was just watching the Easy Allies Podcast and it turns out Nintendo didn't make the game, publish it or have anything to do with it other than some licensing along with 3 other companies I.e. Nintendo isn't making much at all from Pokemon Go. 

 

The app has benefit Nintendo as people have assumed Nintendo had a lot to do with the app and they are making money. This has resulted in share prices rising, but I'm not sure they will stay that way once people start realising this and the other two games don't do well. 

We'll, if the app stays on track (no guarantee it will), it will pull in billions.  Because of Nintendo'stock partial ownership of The Pokémon Company, after all other cuts are taken Nintendo would still make hundreds of millions from Pokemon Go, enough to drastically improve their bottom line proportionate where it has been recently.  Now, they won't make billions but that doesn't mean it won't be a very successful venture for them and a strong starting point for mobile projects in the future.



IkePoR on 16 July 2016
Barkley said:

What do you believe has caused the losses so far this generation? Is the 3ds turning a good profit but it still can't offset the damage done by the WiiU? Are the WiiU losses not THAT bad, but the 3ds isn't profiting as much as it seems? Or is Nintendo losing money in other areas not related to their dedicated hardware?

Wii U was DOA and Nintendo stopped trying to save it around the time Smash released and it was clear the ship was sunk.  They've done all they can to stop the bleeding - halting production, moving releases and releasing bundles - but the jig is up on both the Wii U and 3DS.  

Good thread Barkley, very informative.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

tak13 on 16 July 2016
naruball said:
Barkley said:

That's not really relevant to the topic... at all. xD

I know, right?

Anyway, they said the same thing about Gamecube, always citing a picture that lumped handheld and homeconsole sales together.

This is not surpsing at all. Making games that flopped, taking a loss for some time with each wiiu sold, R&D, advertising (yes, they did as much people like to deny this) and poor sales overall meant they actually lost money with wiiu.

Edit: People keep saying how well 3ds is doing, but it's not. If you look at the software sales everywhere but in Japan, the 3ds is not selling much software at all. It's always, ps4/xbone and once in a while you see a wiiu or 3ds game. It used to so different with the ds dominating the charts with evergreen titles.

lol It was never sold at a loss how it would lose money? And for a 21.74m selling hardware, its software sales were pretty high...

 

Which games? As for the poor sales... There is something good with them, since wii u was being sold at a loss, if it was selling way better it would lose more money and I'm not sure if the software sales would be in a extend to offset them, especially providing that there was no third party support!

 

As for the edit part, that's a frustrating downplaying! What do you mean by that?  It's always ps4/xbone just in the UK ( but it in the USA, is expected since we get only a top ten an that with multiplatform games sales combined, in single skus you see 3ds titles and not lately released ) , lol you say everywhere do you watch german charts for instance? Or how you feel about yokai watch slaying uncharted 4 in Spain charts?

 

Is smash bros 3DS selling 3m in the USA a flop? Which ps or especially xbox exclusive can  match Mario kart 7 or Pokemon x/y sales nowadys ?  You could  have word your opinion  differently, no offense but as is now it manifests something suspicious, you draw a negative picture with things that are invalid!

Yeah it used to be different with the beasty ds but that was an anomaly... You can guess why! Before ds it was GBA.... Eh? Anywise, 3ds has almost the same attach rate with ds while destroys gba in that  part!

You can't say that a handheld platfrom with 60m hardware sales and 300m software sales, isn't selling much software, based on selective use of sales charts and individual cases!



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Soundwave on 16 July 2016
Nuvendil said:
Fei-Hung said:

Was just watching the Easy Allies Podcast and it turns out Nintendo didn't make the game, publish it or have anything to do with it other than some licensing along with 3 other companies I.e. Nintendo isn't making much at all from Pokemon Go. 

 

The app has benefit Nintendo as people have assumed Nintendo had a lot to do with the app and they are making money. This has resulted in share prices rising, but I'm not sure they will stay that way once people start realising this and the other two games don't do well. 

We'll, if the app stays on track (no guarantee it will), it will pull in billions.  Because of Nintendo'stock partial ownership of The Pokémon Company, after all other cuts are taken Nintendo would still make hundreds of millions from Pokemon Go, enough to drastically improve their bottom line proportionate where it has been recently.  Now, they won't make billions but that doesn't mean it won't be a very successful venture for them and a strong starting point for mobile projects in the future.

Pokemon Go is just the tip of the iceberg for Nintendo's mobile profit potential. They could make 10 different apps about Pokemon alone, and Pokemon Go 2 is almost a certainty to happen and I think Nintendo will publish that game themselves to ensure a larger cut of the profit. 



Barkley on 16 July 2016
tak13 said:
naruball said:

I know, right?

Anyway, they said the same thing about Gamecube, always citing a picture that lumped handheld and homeconsole sales together.

This is not surpsing at all. Making games that flopped, taking a loss for some time with each wiiu sold, R&D, advertising (yes, they did as much people like to deny this) and poor sales overall meant they actually lost money with wiiu.

Edit: People keep saying how well 3ds is doing, but it's not. If you look at the software sales everywhere but in Japan, the 3ds is not selling much software at all. It's always, ps4/xbone and once in a while you see a wiiu or 3ds game. It used to so different with the ds dominating the charts with evergreen titles.

You can't say that a handheld platfrom with 60m hardware sales and 300m software sales, isn't selling much software, based on selective use of sales charts and individual cases!

Absolutely you cannot say the 3ds has flopped at all, it has performed very well. However I believe naruball when talking about 3ds software is referring to VGChartz figures, such as the PS4 having 250.64 Million Units of Software Sold, and the 3DS having 242.34 Million Units of software sold. Even though the PS4 has a much smaller installbase and has been out 2 and a half years less. But regardless of how it is doing in relation to the PS4 the 3ds is performing well.

As for the Gamecube losing money, I'm not so sure about that.



Miyamotoo on 16 July 2016

People don't understand that bottom of line is profit at end, not operating income.

And if we look profit, things are quite difrent.

FY3/2012

 FY3/2013 FY3/2014 FY3/2015 FY3/2016
Net sales 647,652 635,422 571,726 549,780 504,459
Operating income -37,320 -36,410 -46,425 24,770 32,881
Ordinary income -60,863 10,482 6,086 70,530 28,790
Profit attributable to owners of parent -43,204 7,099 -23,222 41,843 16,505
Net income per share (yen) -337.86 55.52 -183.59 353.49 137.40
Total assets 1,368,401 1,447,878 1,306,410 1,352,944 1,296,902
Total net assets 1,191,025 1,227,520 1,118,438 1,167,556 1,160,901
Capital adequacy ratio 87.0% 84.8% 85.6% 86.3% 89.5%
Net assets per share (yen) 9,313.15 9,598.22 9,447.00 9,862.52 9,662.73

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/2015_04.html



naruball on 16 July 2016
tak13 said:
naruball said:

I know, right?

Anyway, they said the same thing about Gamecube, always citing a picture that lumped handheld and homeconsole sales together.

This is not surpsing at all. Making games that flopped, taking a loss for some time with each wiiu sold, R&D, advertising (yes, they did as much people like to deny this) and poor sales overall meant they actually lost money with wiiu.

Edit: People keep saying how well 3ds is doing, but it's not. If you look at the software sales everywhere but in Japan, the 3ds is not selling much software at all. It's always, ps4/xbone and once in a while you see a wiiu or 3ds game. It used to so different with the ds dominating the charts with evergreen titles.

lol It was never sold at a loss how it would lose money? And for a 21.74m selling hardware, its software sales were pretty high...

 

Which games? As for the poor sales... There is something good with them, since wii u was being sold at a loss, if it was selling way better it would lose more money and I'm not sure if the software sales would be in a extend to offset them, especially providing that there was no third party support!

 

As for the edit part, that's a frustrating downplaying! What do you mean by that?  It's always ps4/xbone just in the UK ( but it in the USA, is expected since we get only a top ten an that with multiplatform games sales combined, in single skus you see 3ds titles and not lately released ) , lol you say everywhere do you watch german charts for instance? Or how you feel about yokai watch slaying uncharted 4 in Spain charts?

 

Is smash bros 3DS selling 3m in the USA a flop? Which ps or especially xbox exclusive can  match Mario kart 7 or Pokemon x/y sales nowadys ?  You could  have word your opinion  differently, no offense but as is now it manifests something suspicious, you draw a negative picture with things that are invalid!

Yeah it used to be different with the beasty ds but that was an anomaly... You can guess why! Before ds it was GBA.... Eh? Anywise, 3ds has almost the same attach rate with ds while destroys gba in that  part!

You can't say that a handheld platfrom with 60m hardware sales and 300m software sales, isn't selling much software, based on selective use of sales charts and individual cases!

Ok, dude. This is rich coming from you. You paint Ninty in a positive picture in every single post I've see from you. So, let's not be hypocrites, shall we? You probably find this "suspicious" because I don't paint your favourite company the way you want.

"if it was selling way better it would lose more money". Hardcore fans will twist anything bad into something postive, I guess. 

A simple google search would tell you that wiiu was sold at a loss when it launched and for some time after that. Please, don't spread misinformation.

Yes, I see all the charts. Ps4 games dominate them. You're looking at the exceptions because of your confirmation bias.

"based on selective use of sales charts and individual cases". The irony is strong with this one.



tak13 on 16 July 2016
Barkley said:
tak13 said:

You can't say that a handheld platfrom with 60m hardware sales and 300m software sales, isn't selling much software, based on selective use of sales charts and individual cases!

Absolutely you cannot say the 3ds has flopped at all, it has performed very well. However I believe naruball when talking about 3ds software is referring to VGChartz figures, such as the PS4 having 250.64 Million Units of Software Sold, and the 3DS having 242.34 Million Units of software sold. Even though the PS4 has a much smaller installbase and has been out 2 and a half years less. But regardless of how it is doing in relation to the PS4 the 3ds is performing well.

As for the Gamecube losing money, I'm not so sure about that.

Home console vs Handheld console software sales-wise? lol for  obvious reasons! Wii sold more than ds being by 53m below it! Why not comparing 3ds to psp software-wise ? 3DS has already sold more and keep selling and it the end it will fall ashort of psp hardware sales-wise!

Anywise, most of 3ds softwares sales are first party...Ok it would be  nice to have the same third party support of ps4 for the royalties, but so much first party titles sales  on your own hardware is as much beneficial, if not more!

 

Anyway, you can't that software sales of platfrom flop when this platfrom will have the best selling exclusives of the gen or even games, when breaking multiplatfrom down  per platfrom, okay only GTA ps4 can be above!

 

You can tell anything negative about Nintendo but not when it comes to their strong point, software sales! Lets see if uncharted 4 will outsell Mario kart 8... Or  how much halo will end up behind it... ( Unless  NX release date announcement, kills MK8 legs and its expontentially increasing attach rate, I hope it won't ! )