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Forums - Gaming - Would you rather have spent more $ for more powerful 8th gen consoles?

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I...

am happy with current console power 88 56.77%
 
would rather have paid more for more power 67 43.23%
 
Total:155
Pemalite said:
HoloDust said:

Not sure about CDPR and Ubi, but from what I remember, folks at Epic were saying before PS4/XBO launched that they need 2.5TFLOPS consoles (which is what fully operational PS4 GPU@ 1GHz is rated at - but that would mean higher price of PS4)...since neither of them had enough juice, they put SVOGI on hold for UE4 at the time.

As for weakest gen, I'd argue that 4th gen was pretty weak...or at least very late to catch up with computers. Genesis launched in '89 in NA, SNES in '91, and both computers that had similar specs (Amiga and Atari ST) launched in 1985.

Increasing the PS4's GPU clock to 1Ghz might not have cost a single cent extra.

They would've need better cooling and probably slightly better PSU - but that's not really what I meant - those 2 disabled CUs are disabled for better yields, hence lower price, if they went with fully enabled GPU (basically 7870 GHz edition) they would have Epic's 2.5TFLOPS GPU, but yields would be worse and price would be higher.



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HoloDust said:
Pemalite said:

Increasing the PS4's GPU clock to 1Ghz might not have cost a single cent extra.

They would've need better cooling and probably slightly better PSU - but that's not really what I meant - those 2 disabled CUs are disabled for better yields, hence lower price, if they went with fully enabled GPU (basically 7870 GHz edition) they would have Epic's 2.5TFLOPS GPU, but yields would be worse and price would be higher.

The PSU is over-engineered anyway as it should be, It would likely handle the extra power demands at the expense of some lifetime. (Due to Capacitor aging which reduces the max wattage of a PSU over time.)

The fan speed could likely be ramped up with just an update to handle the increased TDP demands.

The PS4 having a clock of 1ghz would likely have meant that all games would probably be hitting 1080P.
As for Flops, there are more important things to worry about.

Slimebeast said:

I didn't say flops were directly proportional to performance, but they're still a good indication.

For example, your X1950 example and almost 500gflops, well it turns out it was at least 50% faster than an X360 at the time. So, not perfectly proportional but in the same ballpark.

Your post is nevertheless very interesting. Aslo, you seem to agree that with PS4 and BXO we witnessed by far the weakest generationional leap relatively speaking. In the past a new console generation could be 20 times stronger, now it's only 6-8 times stronger and next time the difference will be even smaller.

I disagree. I find flops to be a terrible indication for gauging performance, unless of course your workload is *only* single precision floating point heavy... Like... Folding@Home.
Typically newer GPU's with less gflop can beat older GPU's with more gflop.
Besides Gflop ignores the GPU's Geometry, Memory, Texturing, ROP and more capabilities as well. If you exclude half  of a processor in a comparison, then how could the comparison ever be accurate?

And yes, I do agree that this generation's jump in graphics is pretty dismal, I always hammered that tune though... But you also need to keep in mind that games of this generation are also using waaaaaaay more dynamic effects which are simply more expensive, while last generation everything was pre-calculated/static/cheap.
For example it was fairly common to have light details baked into the textures in games last generation, that unloaded a ton of processing power to use for something else... People of course would walk away saying xxx game has impressive graphics when really it was thanks to great art and assets, rather than sheer amazing dazzling effects all running at once thanks to some magical and amazing optimization or the power of the Cell/Cloud/Cats.

That has also impacted the kind of "jump" people are seeing this generation.

With that said... You reach a point where every time you double your "graphics" quality, you need multiples more capable hardware.
This image explains it really well:
10x increase in polygons, you reach a point where an increase isn't as dramatic anymore.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

CGI-Quality said:
Pemalite said:

With that said... You reach a point where every time you double your "graphics" quality, you need multiples more capable hardware.

This image explains it really well:
10x increase in polygons, you reach a point where an increase isn't as dramatic anymore.

This is the point I've been trying to drive home all gen. While the average person sees the PS4/X1 and says ("weakest gen ever"), they don't understand the ins and outs. As this law applies more and more, the same jump in graphics simply isn't possible anymore. 

Then again, take a look at a well done, fully pre-rendered scene in 2016. Real time visuals are, still, nowhere close. When our games start looking like that, then we can right off current generation efforts as 100% minimal. And this comes from someone that works internally with this stuff. 

But, I'll also say this, the games coming in the next 5 years, particularly, are about to be real lookers.

I think the major advantage this generation is the "smaller" details.
Everything has geometry, not flat surfaces which "look" bumpy, particles,  smoke and other effects typically aren't 2D sprites anymore either (Except for Dragon Age: Inquisition, but that was cross-plat.).
Shadowing, texturing, shaders all got a bump, which is to be expected... Everything is dynamic, not pre-calculated/baked.

To put things into perspective... Starting with the Geforce 5 right to the Geforce 6, 7, 8, 9 and 200 series... Geometry performance increased by 3x, where-as shader/compute performance increased by 150x.
The Geforce series after that, the Geforce 400 series increased it by a farther 8x, roughly inline with the Radeon in the PS4, probably take awhile for developers to use that capacity the most optimal way though for the largest visual impact, which we are starting to see in games coming out over in the next few years.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I wish they came out more powerful and more expensive originally. I doubt I will upgrade to Scorpio anytime soon, if ever. Might just wait till the next one after that. Especially since they said all games will play with the original Xbox One that means Halo 6 will, too. I am not sure if Halo 6 will also be PC which will mean there will never be a reason to buy an xbox console again. 



That would have been a lot of extra $ because we would have hade a lot more malfunctioning consoles. Anything more powerfull than what the PS4 has would have hade a huge power draw.



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Do gamers want to pay more on consoles? It's fairly obvious of what the answer is. The xbox one sold badly partly because of it's price and the PS3 sold badly at first because of it's price.

I'm completely content with the power of the current consoles for the gen. I never expect pc quality graphics when I buy a home console. If I wanted graphics comparable to pc, I would have just bought a gaming pc.



Nope. We aren't at fault, the greedy manufacturers are. This is the time to focus on games. The power is more than enough. This isn't the time for more hardware.



Pemalite said:
HoloDust said:

They would've need better cooling and probably slightly better PSU - but that's not really what I meant - those 2 disabled CUs are disabled for better yields, hence lower price, if they went with fully enabled GPU (basically 7870 GHz edition) they would have Epic's 2.5TFLOPS GPU, but yields would be worse and price would be higher.

The PSU is over-engineered anyway as it should be, It would likely handle the extra power demands at the expense of some lifetime. (Due to Capacitor aging which reduces the max wattage of a PSU over time.)

The fan speed could likely be ramped up with just an update to handle the increased TDP demands.

The PS4 having a clock of 1ghz would likely have meant that all games would probably be hitting 1080P.
As for Flops, there are more important things to worry about.

Sure, but that would mean shorter lifetime and noisier console - but improvements in PSU/cooling would not really add much to cost, it's the yields of fully enabled GPU that needs to run on 1GHz.

2.5TFLOPS is 35% more then what PS4 currently has, plus 8 more TMUs for total of 80, both them and ROPs (along with triangle setup) on 25% higher clock - it's definitely not all about FLOPS...but that said, those 2 disabled CUs and anemic 800MHz clock are there cause they've decided to price PS4 at $399, they just couldn't risk with higher price.



HoloDust said:
Pemalite said:

The PSU is over-engineered anyway as it should be, It would likely handle the extra power demands at the expense of some lifetime. (Due to Capacitor aging which reduces the max wattage of a PSU over time.)

The fan speed could likely be ramped up with just an update to handle the increased TDP demands.

The PS4 having a clock of 1ghz would likely have meant that all games would probably be hitting 1080P.
As for Flops, there are more important things to worry about.

Sure, but that would mean shorter lifetime and noisier console - but improvements in PSU/cooling would not really add much to cost, it's the yields of fully enabled GPU that needs to run on 1GHz.

2.5TFLOPS is 35% more then what PS4 currently has, plus 8 more TMUs for total of 80, both them and ROPs (along with triangle setup) on 25% higher clock - it's definitely not all about FLOPS...but that said, those 2 disabled CUs and anemic 800MHz clock are there cause they've decided to price PS4 at $399, they just couldn't risk with higher price.

Yields don't really have much to do with clocks, you just throw more voltage at the problem.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

hershel_layton said:
Consoles are for people who like to play locally and have family or friends who frequently visit

PC is for people who play alone or with online friends

That's the difference. I play with console because I like to play with siblings.

I play consoles and i usually play games with my friends online. I rarely play co-op but i do let my sisters use my consoles from time to time.

OP- Yes