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Forums - General Discussion - Is becoming a vegetarian/vegan worth it?

Life without meat is a waste.



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scrapking said:

2) Of course the inuit (Eskimo is considered a perjorative term by many nothern peoples, BTW) ate mostly meat.  They also were very unhealthy because of it.  Studies on inuit mummies showed signs of heart disease, and they lived far shorter lives than aboriginal peoples who lived even only a little bit further south.

 

Greenland Inuit

Coronary atherosclerosis and heart disease were almost unknown among them when living in their original cultural environment. Their blood levels of cholesterol and triglycerides were very low.

However Greenland Inuits living in Denmark at that time had much higher cholesterol and triglyceride levels due to higher Carb intake associated with introduced European diets that included sugars and grains 

http://www.docsopinion.com/2013/09/27/greenland-eskimos-fats-and-heart-disease/ 



hershel_layton said:

Over the summer I've been working on my eating habits, and I've started to see more and more online articles about vegetarian and vegan diets. 

 

Just curious, but for anyone who is a vegetarian/vegan(or tried to be one), do you think it's worth the sacrifices that are made(i.e no meat and whatnot)?

 

If being a vegetarian improves my life, I'll probably do over a course of one month. Won't be young forever, so it's smart for me to plan for the future.

Ethicaly, I have difficulty defending anything else as moral.

 

I don't possess the necessary control to keep my diet entirely meat-free myself, though.



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Pemalite said:

Incorrect.

The Inuit people for example had undergone a few minor biological "changes" compared to the rest of the general population.

For example, because they weren't consuming things like vegetables, they weren't consuming much in the way of carbohydrates, which means protein is broken down in the liver via Gluconeogenesis, which has resulted in those people having abnormally massive livers to compensate... The downside is when they change their diet to something that is Vegetable/Plant based, they can suffer a myriad of health issues as their bodies haven't undergone generations to adapt.

[...]


No. You have misconstrued what I have said entirely. I am stating everything is okay in moderation.

[...]

I don't care what someone does to someone else, that's not my circus, not my problem. :P
I'm not responsible for any of that.

But if it get's pushed onto me, I will push back.

[...]

Correct. But when you start consuming an obscene amount of cholesterol, your starting amount of Cholesterol tends to be irrellevent.

With that said, I won't reply to the rest of your post, I haven't enough Coffee this morning, Some I agree with, some I don't.

Fair game to say you haven't had enough coffee (strange to me, as a non coffee drinker, to think that Imight  need to medicate myself to reply to a forum post! :) ), but I'd be eager for you to reply to the rest when you feel up to it.  What point in saying you agree with some points and not with others if you're never going to point out which are which?  :)

I didn't say the Inuit (or humans in general) were unable to adapt, or never adapted, I said we did so slowly and are poorly adapted to eating meat, dairy, and eggs since we haven't been eating very much of them through the majority of our evolution and adaptation, to date.  Here's a good summary of the so-called "Inuit paradox", and it's extremely well cited if you look at the description.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N7Sk1ZRohU  Among other things, it looked at mummified Inuit from a couple of hundred years ago, and Inuit mummies had more signs of cardiovascular disease than mummies from any other part of the world.  Remote Inuit today who report eating their traditional diet and have little access to the standard North American diet also are terribly unhealthy (though one possible argument there is that our oceans are vastly more polluted now, making modern seafood drastically less healthy than traditional seafood!).

You say everything in moderation?  I wonder how many people wouldd say several cigarettes a day would be fine, as everything in moderation, right?  Back to food: by dropping animal products to less than 2% of their diet, the Okinawans used to live longer and (more importantly) *better* in their later years than other communities in Japan.  Despite how the Okinawan diet is normally portrayed, less than 1% of their diet was fish, and less than 1% of their diet was all other animal products put together, and they had incredible longevity.  It was a highly anti-inflammatory diet, and a highly anti-oxidant diet.  Of course, under American occupation, in two generations they went from the longest-living and most vibrant Japanese to the shortest-living Japanese.

Back to everything in moderation, the longest living population ever studied is a large seventh-day adventist population in California.  About half their community is vegetarian, and the other half is vegan.  Whichever side of that fence they're on, either way they eat no meat at all, as not eating meat is generally seen as a religious requirement and people born into that community have tremendous cultural support for not eating meat (the opposite of people born in most other communities on the planet).  The men live to an average age of 83.3, and the women to an average of 85.7 years.  Those are *averages*, whereas they'd be outliers in any other community in North America.  They eat no meat at all, not even small amounts in moderation, and they are massively bucking the rest of the North American trend.  This is a strong argument against "everything in moderation" with one's diet, IMO.  SOURCE:  http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-okinawa-diet-living-to-100/

As I noted, omnivores push a lot of things onto non-omnivores without meaning to.  This argument reminds me a lot of when straight people complain about homosexuals pushing their lifestyle on people ("Why do they need parades just because they like to have sex with the same gender?"), but straight people often don't realize that we're pushing our lifestyle on them in ways both subtle and not so subtle.  The pushiest people in this thread are the angry omnivores offering nothing of substance besides pictures of steaks, for example.  And of course, omnivores suffer the most disease, put the most dietary-related stress on the environment, and the most stress on publically funded health care, so that's another way omnivores push their lifestyle on others without realizing it.

I'm not sure why you went to "obscene amout of cholesterol".  I didn't suggest the increase was massive.  Studies have been done on both small increases and large increases, and in both cases before and after comparisons of bad cholesterol show it going up when animal fat consumption increases.  Though larger amounts magnify the effect, as you might imagine.



Humans do not need to eat meat and consume junk food like KFC, McDonald's, Pizza Hut and all the garbage Americans consume on a daily basis. It is the meat products that are making people sick. Big food companies have lied to people for many years and as consequence we have high rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc as a result of eating too many meat products.



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I'm so very sorry for commented I really didn't want to start some kind of conflicting argument.

But as you said depending on how you live, where you live and with who you live it might or might not be easy or cheap.

Because I live with Omnivores and I'm the only Vegan I have to make my food separately and that makes it expensive as an house hold. I also live in South Africa where Veganism is still a very new concept, in a highly meat baste Country. Here as I'm sure in other Countries Vegan food is seen as health food and are prised as such. That said there and more products coming to market and prises are starting to stabilise.

As for Vegans being more health I would agree that is defiantly true, all thou I meant that if someone wants to live healthier they can do so without becoming a Vegan. Because I was a very health-conscious person as a Omnivore I did not feel a difference so much in my lifestyle change.

I would never ever discourage anyone from becoming a Vegetarian/Vegan, I simply meant that for me as a individual I made the decision purely for moral reasons and not to be healthier, as I'm sure most modern Vegetarians and Vegans do. 



Have you tasted bacon? Hell no it's not worth it.



Be prepared to spend a lot of money with doctors/nutritionists, blood tests and vitamin supplements, if you´re willing to be a vegetarian - at least that´s what my vegetarians friends do.

I don´t think it´s healthy at all. Some nutrients are only find in good portions in animal sources, like complex B vitamins, creatin, calcium etc. and we all know that vegetal protein is not processed as well as animal protein in the body.

I do think it´s much better to be ovo-lacto vegetarian. Egg and milk protein are great sources of those nutrients, and you will not need to eat meat at all.



deskpro2k3 said:

Plants give us oxygen, why would you eat them?  You'll be eating the foods that my food eats, and I do not appreciate that.

Theres a big difference between sentient and non sentient life, do plants have vital organs? Do they have a brain to process any emotional pain? do they bleed blood?? This is the dumbest arguement corpse eaters have.



 

The environmental benefit is huge.

Not a veggie, but will try and cut down on my meat.