You must think Ronaldo is a tank or something, the guy falls at minimum touch; Messi has shown us time and time that he doesn't dive and holds his own when tackled. Cold doesn't affect players these days unless you're playing in the freezer in Eastern Europe.

You must not watch Latin soccer to think that Messi doesn't get roughed up and teams park the bus to stop his team.

Nigeria, Iran and Bosnia are not exactly teams to test your defense whenever you got the likes of Messi and Di Maria in the front. Switzerland and Belgium were at most ok teams in the WC. They generated some hype on the road to WC, escpecially Belgium with Hazard but they didn't capitalized on it during WC.

Germany didn't have an easy group, they could've been eliminated if Ghana had played seriously.

Nah that's bullshit. Messi is one of the best players ever. No doubt about it. Can't blame him for having a team that cannot win anything major. I mean he doesn't even have a choice to go to a better national team. By that logic you can only be one of the greatest if you're German, Italian, Brazilian etc.

EDIT: Sounds like I'm saying Argentina hasn't a good team. They are pretty good obviously.

Sorry but I agree with the other guy here, the amount of players who have been seen like Messi but have come to the PL and got stomped is surprising I remember when Veron arrived and he flopped hard as well as the likes of Shevshenko, Cresspo and all. It's a different kind of football in the EPL as teams like Bolton and Blackburn back then would put the studs through you, the SPL has a very uniform style of football as well unlike the EPL, I remember Forlan struggled in the EPL but became prolific in the SPL, the weather also does affect players when you're playing in it every week.

You really need to be a certain type of player to do well in the EPL, I'll also say the Italian leagues are hard to play in as well.

All major player that didn't won one will be forever remain marked by that, like Púskas. It's the greatest achievement. Pelé did it 3 times, Maradona once, Zidane once. You have to do it to be considered one of the greatest. It's unfair but that's what you need. 

Ronaldo will be always remembered by returning from a severe injury and winning the 2002 cup. Nobody wins one alone, but the greatest players of all time were directly responsible for these wins.

So if you ask me, Messi isn't nowhere as good as Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Pelé, Garrincha, Maradona, Zidane and others until he wins a World Cup. Same for Cristiano Ronaldo. With a World Cup, I would probably rank him above Zidane and maybe Romário. Hard to beat Ronaldinho, he was simply too good. Ronaldo is a level above, phenomenal player.  Pelé, Garrincha and Maradona were way too ahead of  their time to be beaten by Messi.

If Romário actually trained instead of just partying, drinking and stuff, maybe he would have been better than Pelé.

Pelé was amazing, but we must be fair and remember how amazing the Brazilian teams were in those cups. For 58 and 62 he had Garrincha, Nilton Santos, Didi, etc. The 62 cup was more of an achievement to Garrincha, of course. For 1970, Jairzinho, Gérson, Tostão, Rivelino. These teams were out of this world, it was unfair.

Talking about Brazilian national teams, these were probably only behind the 1986 team. You could argue that Romário had a more difficult job when winning the 1994 World Cup.

Ugh, Ronaldinho had some good years then he faded into irrelevance.

Messi has been consistent since the world was introduced to Messi. Almost 10 years ago and he still keeps on giving. 

In my scale, C. Ronaldo also has outdone Ronaldinho.

Consistency is just one more thing people ignore. Zidane played well in some big matches but he was way below his full potential most of the time. Apparently that doesn't matter cuz he won the WC so he is better than Messi. No way.

Both Iniesta and Xavi were much better players at one point and they won the WC too. Why aren't they on your scale?

You can't directly compare modern players with older ones, because if Pelé or Maradona were born today they would receive superior medical care, better training routines and would be faster and play in more advanced tactical schemes. Once, Messi did a goal almost identical to the famous Maradona goal, but you have to consider that Diego did that with a 80s physical preparation.

And I agree with you, people are trying to argue that Messi has a crappy team compared to the all time greats, but the Argentina national team is pretty stacked up with tallent. Di Maria is one of them.

What Argentina is lacking is a great coach. Here in Brazil we had a common joke running around that the 1958 team was so great that the coach Vicente Feola actually slept most games because the team woould do all the job. In reality, Feola employed a highly innovative tactical scheme that he learned with Guttman from the 54 Hungary team. A extremely offensive 4-2-4 variant with Zagallo changing positions anytime to cover Nilton Santos when he went as a surprise offensive element, in a time where it wasn't common for a deffensive player to play like that.

A great team needs a great coach to unlock its full potential. Messi had great coaches in Barcelona but not in the national team.

Ronaldinho really lost steam quickly. He wasted his tallent because he lacks discipline. I think he remembers me of Adriano's fall from grace. The only reason he didn't did it as fast as Adriano it's because his brother is his agent and kept him a bit more focused. You got a point here that favors Messi hugely. Also, 2002 was more a win for Ronaldo and Rivaldo than Ronaldinho.

About consistency again, Zidane only shined in a big matches, he tended to mediocrity most of the year. I would agree to put Messi above Ronaldinho, but C. Ronaldo behind both and still ahead of Zidane.

Xavi an Iniesta were great and won the WC, but it was more a team effort than their individual stars. They are more like a damn great combination that any team would want, but individually I think they are outshined by some guys.

I think that we can have players that didn't won the cup in a all-time great rank. Puskas and Di Stéfano are two of them. But all these guys cannot be considered as good as the top 3 or 5 guys without a WC, specially when we have guys like Pelé who won it 3 times (ok, 1 of them was Garrincha's).

Looking at prospects, I believe that Neymar will be the top player as Messi and C. Ronaldo get older. But if he doesn't win a cup, it will never be a top guy and he has a smaller chance to achieve that than Messi or C. Ronaldo for sure.

What you fail to realize is that those players are adapted to a different type of soccer style. Bechkam was a superstar in MU and EPL, as soon as he arrived to Real Madrid, he was playing second fiddle to Figo and the rest. You selectively chose those who failed but disregarded that the majority are successful there.

However, how many English stars were successful in La Liga? Where the pace is slower and require more skill on the ball?

In defence of Ronaldinho he triggered a new era of football that set the path for players like C.Ronaldo, Neymar and Messi, he started the phase of incorporating unorthadorx skills into play and thinking where as before it was mainly traditional flicks and ball control.

As for great players who never won a tournament (not as good as the legends but still great) you'll be here forever on that one as the are too many from Michael Laudrup, Gascoigne, Zico, Bergkamp, Best, Nedved, Platini (yes I know he's a prat), Matthews, Hagi etc...