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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - PS4Neo + XBScorpio ... Is NX Screwed?

vivster said:
You seem to be under the assumption that Nintendo was ever in competition with Sony and Microsoft. Neo and Scorpion will have zero effect on NX sales.

Sure...  Just like PS3/PS4 and X360/X1 had zero effect on Wii U sales.



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Soundwave said:
Swordmasterman said:
Why people are treating Xbox Scorpion, and PS4 Neo, as new Gen consoles ? they will just be the same consoles but more powerful, this isn't a new Gen, because all PS4 Neo, and Xbox Scorpion's games will have to run on previous consoles.

6 TFLOP vs. 1.2 TFLOP is basically pretty much a new generation device, it may have backwards compatibility but that's basically bordering on a new generation, that's a massive hardware leap. 

XBox 360 (250 GFLOPS) to XBox One (1.2 TF) is a 5x performance leap, XB1 (1.2 TF) to XB Scorpio (6 TF) is pretty much the same leap. 

Even the PS4Neo surprised me, 4 TFLOP console for $299 this year is pretty insane. 

 

The Neo/Scorpio can be a billion times more powerful, but as long the games they recieve are the same ones the PS4/XB1 get then it's not a new generation and the NX would still only need to match PS4/XB1 to be in contention for those third party games.

UltimateUnknown said:
Are we even sure at this point that Nintendo is competing directly with MS/Sony?

This might be another case of Nintendo trying to get the casuals back in. Not that I think it'll work though. The more time passes the more it becomes clear to me that the Wii was a one time thing and Sony/MS has the core gamer market on lockdown with various price entry points with their new consoles. I really don't see an audience for Nintendo besides their ~10 million diehard fans, especially with all the bridges that have been burned with 3rd parties.

I think it is very narrow-minded to block everything into two categories, "casual" & "core", the gaming world is not that black & white and does not take into account various demographics.

On PS4/XBO, there really is not alot of diversity in who the major software releases are aimed at, almost all of the big releases cater to teenage & adult males. According to the game database on this site, nearly 80% of retail software sales come from the shooter/sports/action genres. Basically Sony/Microsoft have found their niche in the gaming market and dont seem to be doing a whole lot to appeal to other demographics, thats where Nintendo can potentially do well.

The demographics that arent being catered to by Sony/Microsoft include children, families & females. With the exception of Minecraft & a few Lego games, there really isnt any big hits this generation with strong appeal to these demographics. As Aquamarine's data showed in the most recent NPD thread, the Toys-to-Life market seems to have saturated, Disney is calling an end to Disney Infinity & Skylanders has been declining for a couple years. Just Dance continues to see massive declines year after year and the return of Guitar Hero/Rock Band were not met with commercial success.

Some people may see this as a sign that these demographics are no longer interested in playing on dedicated gaming devices and are forever lost to free games on smartphones, I do not see it that way. I believe there is still a lot of potential to get interest from these demographics, but developers arent going to get it by releasing sequels/reboots to 5-10 year old franchises that are dead/declining.

Guitar Hero debuted in 2005, Rock Band in 2007, Just Dance in 2009, Skylanders in 2011. People got their fill of these games and are ready for new experiences.

If Nintendo can find a way to release products that have strong appeal to children, families & females, in addition to their dedicated fanbase than they can create a strong userbase that is very different from that found of PS/XB devices. I'm not saying that they should completely turn their backs on the teenage/adult male demographics but it cant be their primary focus.

As for the bolded, 3DS has sold about 60 million which shows that there are alot more than just 10 million people who are willing to buy Nintendo hardware.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

KLAMarine said:
CosmicSex said:

I think he is saying that Nintendo is playing everything too close to the chest.

Perhaps but among other things, what I'm getting from the excerpt below is the feeling that Turkish believes Microsoft and Sony are benefiting from "marketing buzz" and "people talking" about Microsoft and Sony and within the same sentence contrasts Nintendo against Microsoft and Sony as if there hasn't been "buzz" and "discussion" about the NX.

Turkish said:

These (controlled?) leaks are only good for MS and Sony tho, they start the marketing buzz before the products are even announced and get people talking about them while the only signal we have of Nintendo still being in the console business is a vague twitter post saying "NX launches March 2017!".

I could be wrong but until further notice from Turkish himself, this is my current interpretation from the excerpt above.

No what he is describing is manufactured hype which happens to be very effective. 



zorg1000 said:
UltimateUnknown said:
Are we even sure at this point that Nintendo is competing directly with MS/Sony?

This might be another case of Nintendo trying to get the casuals back in. Not that I think it'll work though. The more time passes the more it becomes clear to me that the Wii was a one time thing and Sony/MS has the core gamer market on lockdown with various price entry points with their new consoles. I really don't see an audience for Nintendo besides their ~10 million diehard fans, especially with all the bridges that have been burned with 3rd parties.

I think it is very narrow-minded to block everything into two categories, "casual" & "core", the gaming world is not that black & white and does not take into account various demographics.

On PS4/XBO, there really is not alot of diversity in who the major software releases are aimed at, almost all of the big releases cater to teenage & adult males. According to the game database on this site, nearly 80% of retail software sales come from the shooter/sports/action genres. Basically Sony/Microsoft have found their niche in the gaming market and dont seem to be doing a whole lot to appeal to other demographics, thats where Nintendo can potentially do well.

The demographics that arent being catered to by Sony/Microsoft include children, families & females. With the exception of Minecraft & a few Lego games, there really isnt any big hits this generation with strong appeal to these demographics. As Aquamarine's data showed in the most recent NPD thread, the Toys-to-Life market seems to have saturated, Disney is calling an end to Disney Infinity & Skylanders has been declining for a couple years. Just Dance continues to see massive declines year after year and the return of Guitar Hero/Rock Band were not met with commercial success.

Some people may see this as a sign that these demographics are no longer interested in playing on dedicated gaming devices and are forever lost to free games on smartphones, I do not see it that way. I believe there is still a lot of potential to get interest from these demographics, but developers arent going to get it by releasing sequels/reboots to 5-10 year old franchises that are dead/declining.

Guitar Hero debuted in 2005, Rock Band in 2007, Just Dance in 2009, Skylanders in 2011. People got their fill of these games and are ready for new experiences.

If Nintendo can find a way to release products that have strong appeal to children, families & females, in addition to their dedicated fanbase than they can create a strong userbase that is very different from that found of PS/XB devices. I'm not saying that they should completely turn their backs on the teenage/adult male demographics but it cant be their primary focus.

As for the bolded, 3DS has sold about 60 million which shows that there are alot more than just 10 million people who are willing to buy Nintendo hardware.

I don't think anyone is arguing the case for handhelds here. Nintendo handhelds have traditionally done very well in the children's market besides the hardcore Nintendo fans and the 3DS has been no different. That being said looking at Nintendo's past handheld sales I don't think the effect of smartphones slowly chipping away at the children's market cannot be denied.

The real point being made was about the NX, their next home console. As I said at the very beginning, contrary to what people have been arguing in this thread so far about whether NX is screwed against Neo/Scorpio from a straight power perspective, that doesn't really matter because Nintendo will likely not aim the NX to the same market that likes/needs strong consoles. They've admitted it themselves. So yes I do agree with you in that I think they will try yet another console like the Wii that will try to entice that "casual" audience, or "children, families, females", or whatever you want to call them. But I'm very doubtful this is going to work out very well because creating a phenomenon like the Wii isn't creatively an easy task. Unlike Sony/MS who can follow a relatively standard formula and release a more powerful console (that get good 3rd party support) to gain back their audience, Nintendo will have to take a huge risk (like they tried with the Wii U and its gamepad) that isn't necessarily going to be a guaranteed success. But I suppose only time will tell.



 

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zorg1000 said:
UltimateUnknown said:
Are we even sure at this point that Nintendo is competing directly with MS/Sony?

This might be another case of Nintendo trying to get the casuals back in. Not that I think it'll work though. The more time passes the more it becomes clear to me that the Wii was a one time thing and Sony/MS has the core gamer market on lockdown with various price entry points with their new consoles. I really don't see an audience for Nintendo besides their ~10 million diehard fans, especially with all the bridges that have been burned with 3rd parties.

I think it is very narrow-minded to block everything into two categories, "casual" & "core", the gaming world is not that black & white and does not take into account various demographics.

On PS4/XBO, there really is not alot of diversity in who the major software releases are aimed at, almost all of the big releases cater to teenage & adult males. According to the game database on this site, nearly 80% of retail software sales come from the shooter/sports/action genres. Basically Sony/Microsoft have found their niche in the gaming market and dont seem to be doing a whole lot to appeal to other demographics, thats where Nintendo can potentially do well.

The demographics that arent being catered to by Sony/Microsoft include children, families & females. With the exception of Minecraft & a few Lego games, there really isnt any big hits this generation with strong appeal to these demographics. As Aquamarine's data showed in the most recent NPD thread, the Toys-to-Life market seems to have saturated, Disney is calling an end to Disney Infinity & Skylanders has been declining for a couple years. Just Dance continues to see massive declines year after year and the return of Guitar Hero/Rock Band were not met with commercial success.

Some people may see this as a sign that these demographics are no longer interested in playing on dedicated gaming devices and are forever lost to free games on smartphones, I do not see it that way. I believe there is still a lot of potential to get interest from these demographics, but developers arent going to get it by releasing sequels/reboots to 5-10 year old franchises that are dead/declining.

Guitar Hero debuted in 2005, Rock Band in 2007, Just Dance in 2009, Skylanders in 2011. People got their fill of these games and are ready for new experiences.

If Nintendo can find a way to release products that have strong appeal to children, families & females, in addition to their dedicated fanbase than they can create a strong userbase that is very different from that found of PS/XB devices. I'm not saying that they should completely turn their backs on the teenage/adult male demographics but it cant be their primary focus.

As for the bolded, 3DS has sold about 60 million which shows that there are alot more than just 10 million people who are willing to buy Nintendo hardware.

Shouldn't Nintendo have a higher share of the children's market at least then? The Wii U has proportionately far more "kid/family friendly" games than the XBox or Playstation brands, yet I'd bet the XBox and Playstation have actually more kids buything their consoles.

I think you're kinda selling XBox/PS short too, there are enough family friendly titles on those platforms and things like Minecraft, which is a bigger new IP than anything Nintendo has come up with in like almost a decade. 

You have indie games like Cuphead that look brilliant and fill the niche for people who want quirkier types of games to balance off big budget traditional style games. There are games like Shovel Knight.

Nintendo is the one who is not providing diversity within their library, Sony/MS are bringing more of everything to the masses and they simply have more of what people want in a home console. Case in point, "kids" should love Disney Infinity, right? The publisher was surprised to find that more kids chose Star Wars Battlefront instead of Disney Infinity 2 (which was counting on a big bump from the addition of Star Wars characters). Guess which of the three platform providers didn't have Star Wars Battlefront. 

I'd say the casual market is actually overserved today too, just because Just Dance is the last console casual franchise hit and things like Nintendo Land and Sing Party failed to materialize for Nintendo, doesn't mean that the casual market actually has had probably the majority of the new hit IP. Angry Birds (now a movie), Boom Beach, Candy Crush, Geometry Dash, Minecraft, Puzzles & Dragons, Clash of Clans are all huge global phenmonenons, seems like there's a new hit casual IP every 6-12 months. 

Maybe casuals simply realized paying $250+ for a game console + $40+/game and not having the flexibility to play where ever they want just to be able to play video games for a couple of hours a week was not that great of a bargain? People used to drive to Blockbuster Video every Friday to physically rent movies too, then Netflix and Video On Demand happened, when you offer something better/more convienant people often move on. What Apple/Android have done is something similar I think, they offer a better product for casual tastes, even than the Wii/DS at its peak. There are more people who play video games regularily today than at any point in gaming history most likely. 



Good thing Nintendo is starting to look at other avenues. Hope NX is marketable.



chakkra said:
vivster said:
You seem to be under the assumption that Nintendo was ever in competition with Sony and Microsoft. Neo and Scorpion will have zero effect on NX sales.

Sure...  Just like PS3/PS4 and X360/X1 had zero effect on Wii U sales.

If by "effect" you mean showcasing the weakness of the Wii U by making a competent product, then yes. But by that logic, every console ever had an effect on the Wii  U.



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jeez... people really enjoy these Nintendo doomed threads. we don't even know wtf the nx is to have a real opinion.



No because the NX will actually be an upgrade. Not a box that just plays the SAME GAMES with a fresh coat of paint



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