We are all having a discussion as to what is possobly going to be in the new hardware. A more powerful xbox doesnt make a difference. At the time both those machines are oit there would be well around 70M PS4s ti the XB1s 30. Can you remember the PS2? then the XB was more powerful too. I doubt anyone here is worried about anything.

So far i have tried to respect you and engage in a reasonable converstaion with you, but your above post makes me realize thats not going to be possibke anymore.

I find it funny tho that you are taking one rumor to be fact and the other you are twisting. They are both rumors. So twist them both kr accept both of them.

It is clear that the PS4 is also to be using polaris. Its really simple, the onky 36CU GPU amd makes or will make on a 16nm process is a polaris chip. There isnt any otjer semi custom hybrid nonsense that will cost whoever uses it more than just usinf the reference design. The difference in power can be easily explained by clock speeds, which you are well aware of. Give it a go, work out the TF for a 36CU polaris @900mhz and one @1200mhz. MS has already shown they are more likely to clock their chips higher than sony is For whatever the reason.

who think MS will be so stupid to release a weaker model since they will be launching nearly a year later than its competitor... 

unless both releasing date around the same time...

There is a slim XBox One coming too, Scorpio is the more powerful 6 TFLOP model from leaks. Two distinct hardware, not one. 

Well if I was MS, take a loss to have a significant performance edge.

You are making some bold statement consideing that we don't know.  What does 'Not full blown Polaris' mean anyway? Was that term invented just for the purpose of your argument?

Are you sure you aren't the one whose nervous?

Seriouly though, (and this comes from like a whole year of NX threads), you can't make absolute statements without facts.   Well you can, but you run the rist of being wrong and looking foolish.   Thats why DF posed the question.  Because they didn't have the facts... but I'm supposed to belive that you do?

Present me some facts.  Otherwise, stop accusing people when you have no real info.

Is ESRAM or whatever Xbone uses amenable to 3d FinFET process?
I'm just thinking about how well that will scale and fit in to such an APU.
If it didn't, it would become disproportionately expensive (to maintain 2d structures).
If it does (and especially if it is MORE proportionately benefited by 3d) then it's OK to repeat that.

I see alot of people expect/want MS to have full/trivial BC with Xbone, which kind of needs same memory arch.
OTOH, devs ALREADY develop for Sony's memory model, so switching to that model won't be difficult either,
any game with Sony port can just draw from the Sony code, which is more straight forward anyways.
Even MS exclusives can release a patch to work on Xbox "Dos" (or whatever) memory arch (an easier switch than vice versa).

Doing that WILL likely strongely invoke the issues people had with PS4NEO announcement,
e.g. Xbone (original) releases will suffer because their architecture/optimization model is dead end.
(much more so than PS4/NEO who will share same overall architecture)

I kind of suspect MS will go that way, and since they're breaking trivial BC anyways,
they will go ahead and update the CPU side more than Sony is (supposedly retaining Jaguar, just upclocked).

Can't see why they can't put the ESRAM on the chip. Though it risks taking up space on the die which in turn limits how much else they can put on it like what hapoened to them with the ogXB1. But on a plus side they can now put a lot more of it, maybe 64MB or even 128MB and at an even higher bandwidth. This is the most effective way they can ensure BC with all existing XB1 games out already and ensure FC and BC going forward.

Another option would be to go with somwthing likE GDDR5x ram. That if clocked right could give them upwards of 300GB/s+ in bandwidth. With that kinda margin they could emulate the ESRAM allowing full BC. Only problem with that is going forward that would make it seem like the XB is made up of two entirely different platforms as opposed to one platform with two graphical presets. 

For these mid gen cycles to work, full BC is the single most important thing. It so inoortant that its not even considered as BC, its just scalability. Maybe there is something about the UWP that makes this all work.... maybe.

I really suspect HBM will be involved here somehow. Maybe not as the main RAM, but a small pool of HBM2 could possibly replace the ESRAM perhaps. 

I think they should aim for an advantage, but something Phil said at GAME 15 stuck with me.  He said "I need to make the Xbox profitable in order to make sure Xbox sticks arond".  Microsoft has shown us resently that they will not continue to absorb loses just because they can (see their smartphone line).   Be modet and effective with your decision making.  When the Xbox One launched, it costs more than a PS4.   They should try to keep loses to $50 or less because what we see right now is a console cycle that demands new R$D and refreshes much more frequently.  You need to get to profit as soon as possible in this climate.   The second issue is that you don't want to be so much more expensive then Sony that they can price you right out.   We are enteirng a stage where the diminishing returns on performance are falling of a cliff.   A master stroke would be a system that is at parity with the Neo, but allow you to upgrade the console at your own choosing.  A modular console if you will.  Shift the cost of going all out to the consumer in the same vain as PC rig building. 

Xb one 2. If it's true that it is going to be Occulus ready then MS has no choice but to make Xb one 2 a much more beefy unit than PS4N. If PS4N gets off to a good start then a beefier but more expensive Xb one 2 is likely to really struggle. We might see more or less a repeat of the Kinect debacle if MS designs Xb one 2 around needing to support Occulus. They force themselves into a more expensive product for a peripheral device that most gamers won't ever use. And to some extent too much extra power on the Xb one 2 could be wasted in terms of achieving superior visuals over PS4 Neo. Xb one 2 only needs to be somewhat more powerful than PS4 for it to win the head to head comparisons. Any extra power isn't going to make the games run at 4K or >60fps. And Xb one 2 won't be powerful enough to compete with PC quality. Overcapping on power just makes for a more expensive unit and thus a negative effect on sales.