Oh my. Borders weren't created just because politican's were bored. Should be throw our national identities, our way of life, everything we strived for just to meet these progressive "needs"! These nations are screwed up not because of the west, but because of the people who run them. That fact cannot be changed. The west didn't give shit to China, and now look at it. The middle east is the way it is because of ideoligy. Even before the west came in, there were always problems in that region. Until the people of these nations decide to fix things, nothing will ever change.

Nationalism is useless. What really separates the United States from Canada, Taiwan from China and North Korea from South Korea? Is it their language? No. Is it their ethnicity? No. They are just arbitrary divisions made by political leaders. The only reason nationalism exists is to keep the current policital borders in existence. I also think that you underestimate the influence of Western nations in the Middle East. The United Kingdom and France conquered the regions and arbitrarily divided them into administrative regions. The United States supported many extremists in order to fulfill their own selfish desires. Also, your point that the west didn't care about China is false: in the 1800s and early 1900s Germany, Austria-Hungary, the United States, the United Kingdom and France all carved up and controlled multiple sections of the country, trying to swallow it up land by land. Even during the Chinese Civil War the countries picked sides and gave their support to certain sides.

Nationalism is useless? So you're telling me the culture's of Europe are indifferent, and we should just have a large mixed race with no genetic diversity and no identity? Should we just eat, work, have sex, and sleep? Guess the rich elite are going to get what they want...

What does nationalism have to do with any of that? Of course there are going to be different cultures, that's not the same thing as nationalism. Nationalism is when people link their own identities to that of the state: if the country is strong and powerful we are happier, if not then we aren't. This removes individuality from the person.

That's my point, NATIONAL culture. Every European state has that now. But do you think with millions of immigrants with different value's coming in, that'll remain the same? Look at how many places don't even say "merry christmas" because they may offend someone. I still believe in such value's, but many don't seem to bother anymore. The reason we have modern society is because of nationalism. Otherwise, we'd still be split into fuedal states that would be run by kings and going nowhere.

National culture is not the same thing as nationalism. Also, I believe that it depends on how we react to the immigrants. If we treat them warmly and with help, they are much more likely to adapt to the culture of the country. However, if we ostracize and discriminate against them they will keep to themselves and feel as though it is because of their religion: they will them radicalize.

Discriminate? We've done as much as we can to integrate them. If they don't want too, nothing will change their mind. And whatever, nationalism is something completely different. But its also the reason the modern world exists. Without a national unity, what makes us different from the feudal state's in Europe 100s of years ago?

What does make us different? There are still insanely rich people while are there many others who suffer in great poverty, there are endless wars around the world, there is still religious fanaticism, racism is still alive and well, etc.

It really goes back to how the region was carved up after world war 1 and the dismantling of the Turkish Empire. The region was split according to what economically suited the USA and Britain (and to a lesser extent the continental allies of the US and Britain). If the region had been able to self determine it's post Turkish national boundaries things would look quite different.

The of course you have Israel being forced upon the region to assuage the collective guilt over the Nazi extermination of the Jews. I personally have no problem with Israel existing as a nation, but Israel's neighbours had no say in the matter, and it was merely because it was British occupied territory at the time.

The USA supported the Mujahardeen in Afghanistant only for as long as it took to drive the Soviets out. They abandoned Afghanistan immediately thereafter and did not help at all to transition into a moderate / liberal democracy, thence we got the rise of the Taliban.

So it is completely unfair and unjust to just tell the Arabs to sort the shit out, because most of the shit is because of Western interference (for oil control) in the first place.

In most places where you will find socio-economic shitholes the hands of the west will be sullied by historical colonial intereference.

Guys there is a lot of bullshit in this thread.

We all have an opinion, and mods try to take it easy on political threads. But this is the first and last warning, next person to get personal will be moderated accordingly.