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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Emily Rogers: NX not gonna use X86 architecture, raw power close to XBO

spemanig said:
Intrinsic said:

Unfortinateky third parties does. 

Sigh Nintendo. and there went all hope I had for them left. Well let's hope Themis rumour is wrong. I can't understand how any company seems to try so hard to lose. 

They care about parity. NX has that according to this rumor. They're not losing anything.

How long before Nintendo fans start crying that they're getting the shittiest version of third party games and blaming third parties for it?



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spemanig said:
Intrinsic said:

Unfortinateky third parties does. 

Sigh Nintendo. and there went all hope I had for them left. Well let's hope Themis rumour is wrong. I can't understand how any company seems to try so hard to lose. 

They care about parity. NX has that according to this rumor. They're not losing anything.

Parity? you really need to take off those Nintendo goggles and be realistic. Having 1TF doesmt mean you have parity when you system PL is vastly different from what the rest if the industry uses. As far as third parties are concerned, they pretty much make one universal code of their game and make 3 slightly different versions of that code for the PS4/XB1/PC. If the NX is using an ARM based architecture then that means they have to make a near complete different version of their code just to support it. All for a platform competing with consoles that at the time would have well over 80M consoles on the market?

Anyways, if Nintendo is going ARM, I think their reasoning is to make a WiiU like controller that has its own dedicated ARM chip built in and will play all the home console games albeit at different settings. But buying the NX will basically be like buying a handheld and a home console combined. They probably feel they can't really compete in the home market with the likes of Sony and Ms, but they know they can still dominate the mobile market. so merging both as one unit is probably what they are after. 

It's a gamble, but I do think it's the best shot they have at any form of relevance. It's them simply playing to their strenghts. 



Soundwave said:
spemanig said:

They'll sell the NX when combined with everything else it's doing. Fundumental flaw in your line of thinking is that you can't comprehend that.

They can't copy incompatible OS functionality. Nothing poetic about that. They can't copy touch based UI made for a unified platform of multiple hardware SKUs that rely on dual screens with a controlled and curated marketplace with no outside competition allowing for a program that rewards every purchase you make with more discounts on that same platform. Not on the PS4/XBO. It's not a firmware update away. It's a console and handheld relaunch away. They won't do that. Best they'll do is a digital only revision and then wait out the rest of their generation. Then maybe a small subset of their audience will be reliable for the kind of marketplace the NX will have Day 1. That won't come close to catching up with how far ahead NX will be in terms of platform by then.

It's not meant to be impressive by itself. NX is the sum of its parts. Already said that numerous times to you in numerous threads. Stop goldfishing and start remembering more than one post in the past. Never claimed that Nintendo was going to position digital only or My Nintendo as the killer app. They are glue. A means to an end. The gears that make the clock work. An unceremonious foundation to the NX empire.

Yes they are and no it's not. They aren't becoming a mobile centric platform at all. They are console focused, obviously. Even if the NX is slightly weaker than the XBO, you're acting like that's microconsole territory. That's a generational leap in power from the Wii U, and that's all it needs to be. All it's games will have parity with the PS4 and XBO, and that's all that matters.

Fundamental flaw in your thinking is assuming anyone gives a shit about a video game console OS.

An OS for a smartphone is important because it's a device that has to be able to send business documents, check email, give me Facebook updates, take photos, catalog those photos, take video, it needs to be able to give me driving directions to my rec league basketball or hockey game, it needs to remind me that I have a business meeting at 3 PM on Friday, it needs to be able to play music so I can listen to the Rocky soundtrack at the gym, etc. etc. etc.

No one wants to do any of this shit with a game console. I don't want to send/edit business documents on my game console. I don't want/need to check my Facebook on my game console. I don't need driving directions from my game console.

All a game system needs to do is play fucking games, have a compenet online network for GAMING, and play movies. That's it. That's all.

Trying to have game consoles do more than this has been tried multiple times and no gives a shit (ask Microsoft).

You're coalting two devices that are nothing alike because one is successful (by trying to associate the NX with the Apple iPhone ... the NX is never going to be the iPhone). It's like a unpopular kid trying to squeeze in next to the cool girl in the school photo assuming some of that will rub off on them.

LOOOOOOOOOOL

I almost choke with my food



Soundwave said:

Fundamental flaw in your thinking is assuming anyone gives a shit about a video game console OS.

An OS for a smartphone is important because it's a device that has to be able to send business documents, check email, give me Facebook updates, take photos, catalog those photos, take video, it needs to be able to give me driving directions to my rec league basketball or hockey game, it needs to remind me that I have a business meeting at 3 PM on Friday, it needs to be able to play music so I can listen to the Rocky soundtrack at the gym, etc. etc. etc.

No one wants to do any of this shit with a game console. I don't want to send/edit business documents on my game console. I don't want/need to check my Facebook on my game console. I don't need driving directions from my game console.

All a game system needs to do is play fucking games, have a compenet online network for GAMING, and play movies. That's it. That's all.

Trying to have game consoles do more than this has been tried multiple times and no gives a shit (ask Microsoft).

You're coalting two devices that are nothing alike because one is successful (by trying to associate the NX with the Apple iPhone ... the NX is never going to be the iPhone). It's like a unpopular kid trying to squeeze in next to the cool girl in the school photo assuming some of that will rub off on them.

Right, just like no one gave a shit about phone OS before Apple made people give a shit about phone OS.

"All a game system needs to do is play fucking games." You are grossly oversimplifying things, especially on a platform where you don't just play games but you buy games and select games and organize games. Again, you're severely out of touch with modernity. This is not having consoles do more. It's having consoles do what they should be doing, but better.

I'm comparing to platforms that are nearly identical in position because Nintendo has said and explained in great detail just how their situations will be nearly identical. You think in hindsight. I think in foresight. I'm explaining this stuff in the most layman of terms. You not being able to follow is your own failing. And understandable failing as it's something that has never been attempted before in the home console space, but a failing none the less. A firmware revolution may sound boring to you, but you know, that doesn't really matter. It's what will light the world on fire come March.



spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

Fundamental flaw in your thinking is assuming anyone gives a shit about a video game console OS.

An OS for a smartphone is important because it's a device that has to be able to send business documents, check email, give me Facebook updates, take photos, catalog those photos, take video, it needs to be able to give me driving directions to my rec league basketball or hockey game, it needs to remind me that I have a business meeting at 3 PM on Friday, it needs to be able to play music so I can listen to the Rocky soundtrack at the gym, etc. etc. etc.

No one wants to do any of this shit with a game console. I don't want to send/edit business documents on my game console. I don't want/need to check my Facebook on my game console. I don't need driving directions from my game console.

All a game system needs to do is play fucking games, have a compenet online network for GAMING, and play movies. That's it. That's all.

Trying to have game consoles do more than this has been tried multiple times and no gives a shit (ask Microsoft).

You're coalting two devices that are nothing alike because one is successful (by trying to associate the NX with the Apple iPhone ... the NX is never going to be the iPhone). It's like a unpopular kid trying to squeeze in next to the cool girl in the school photo assuming some of that will rub off on them.

Right, just like no one gave a shit about phone OS before Apple made people give a shit about phone OS.

"All a game system needs to do is play fucking games." You are grossly oversimplifying things, especially on a platform where you don't just play games but you buy games and select games and organize games. Again, you're severely out of touch with modernity. This is not having consoles do more. It's having consoles do what they should be doing, but better.

I'm comparing to platforms that are nearly identical in position because Nintendo has said and explained in great detail just how their situations will be nearly identical. You think in hindsight. I think in foresight. I'm explaining this stuff in the most layman of terms. You not being able to follow is your own failing. And understandable failing as it's something that has never been attempted before in the home console space, but a failing none the less. A firmware revolution may sound boring to you, but you know, that doesn't really matter. It's what will light the world on fire come March.

I still don't think people want to do anything with a game OS. "Because iPhone" is not a reason.

At least wait until the actual OS for this thing is unveiled, you're derailing every NX thread with some imaginary wonder OS that you've invented inside your head. This isn't even relevant to this topic. This topic is about the NX CHIPSET.

The Apple stuff is just stupid anyway, every freaking industry has some blow hard saying "we're the Apple of XYZ". There is no Apple of anything else. Apple is Apple, they are a one in a million company that is basically a part luxury electronics and part fashion brand basically and even they are largely just cruising off things that Steve Jobs pushed for that are now 7-10 years old. But they can get away with it because they are a "sexy/cool" brand.



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maxleresistant said:
I always thought that Nintendo only needs to be in the same ballpark as the two others. So third parties could easily port their games on it. And I thought it was enough, but it was before the ps4k and xbox one.5

I also always thought Nintendo would never have the most powerful console. It will NEVER happen.

But anyway, hard to know if Nintendo made the right move, but to me the most important things are:
-strong first party support
-good third party support
-at least a xbox one equivalent in term a power
-a low price point

I wouldn't count on the third party support.

Developers are not going to jump through hoops to support the weakest hardare that has the lowest userbase. That will lead the predictable cycle of

A) Some half assed ports at launch, with several key third parties sitting on the sidelines in "wait and see" mode.

B) Said half assed ports get panned in reviews, sales are low

C) Third party then says "oh well NX software doesn't sell, sayonara".

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

At least it'll have Monster Hunter I guess (provided Nintendo doesn't screw up whatever agreement they have with Capcom).

Low price point I also neccessarily would not bank on, if this thing has like a propietary free form LCD controller, you're probably looking at $299.99, which I wouldn't say is expensive, but I wouldn't call that cheap either.



Emily Rodgers said:

 

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit. Anyone who is claiming that NX is “two times the power of PS4 GPU” is being misled by their sources. Based on what I’ve heard, I don’t believe the NX will compete directly with PS4 (Neo) / PS4K in raw power.

There will be plenty of debates over the NX’s specs because it’s not simple to directly compare two apples (with x86 architecture) to an orange (that doesn’t use x86 architecture). But everything that I’ve heard (so far) indicates that NX isn’t the PS4K competitor that some Nintendo fans are hoping for.

https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/so-about-nx/

Look at her play on words.  Raw power/specs is different from performance.  Number of shaders, compute units etc is rthe aw power. Now the performance rating of polaris is double, so if NX is closer or even weaker on paper as Emily implies (being a "stretch") with the raw numbers, it will still out perform the older tech.  10-12 cu, 

Also  look at  how she mentions  the ps4k competitor part, but that is a 4+ tf  console. Its obvious Emily is arguing about Polaris 10, even though most people are talking about polaris 11.  The polaris 10 (5+ tf) is the ridiculous rumor IMO.

Nothing has changed really, other than her shooting down the super ambitoius PS4k competitor claims.  I am in supermetal64's Polaris 11 + arm camp unless proven otherwise. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_4eNnMFFo



Intrinsic said:

Parity? you really need to take off those Nintendo goggles and be realistic. Having 1TF doesmt mean you have parity when you system PL is vastly different from what the rest if the industry uses. As far as third parties are concerned, they pretty much make one universal code of their game and make 3 slightly different versions of that code for the PS4/XB1/PC. If the NX is using an ARM based architecture then that means they have to make a near complete different version of their code just to support it. All for a platform competing with consoles that at the time would have well over 80M consoles on the market?

Anyways, if Nintendo is going ARM, I think their reasoning is to make a WiiU like controller that has its own dedicated ARM chip built in and will play all the home console games albeit at different settings. But buying the NX will basically be like buying a handheld and a home console combined. They probably feel they can't really compete in the home market with the likes of Sony and Ms, but they know they can still dominate the mobile market. so merging both as one unit is probably what they are after. 

It's a gamble, but I do think it's the best shot they have at any form of relevance. It's them simply playing to their strenghts. 

You clearly know nothing about what you're talking about if you genuinely think that coding for different archicetures is as demanding as you're making it out to be in 2016, and 1TF offers nearly identical power parity to the XBO. We have engines meant to make porting this kind of stuff brainless for a reason. Unity exists for a reason. Unreal 4 is prominent for a reason.

No chance a standalone gamepad is happening. Iwata already shot down an all in one console, and thinking about it for more than two seconds makes it clear that it makes no sense. So it has two screens when you're at home, but one when you're away? How are games like Splatoon going to work on the go? If every game is required to have off TV play, that means that the controller with the screen isn't a neccessary part of the system, which makes it an unecessary added cost. If every game can be played without the screen controller, what's the point in bundling the screen controller?

No, the NX console will be a console with a screen controller. It'll be whatever is powerful enough to get PS4/XBO multiplats which Emily's rumor clearly is. It will have a handheld brother released separately at a later date. That handheld will have dual screens, and every button input that the NX console has access to and they will share a library. If you want to play games on the go, you have to buy the handheld. If you want better looking games, you buy the console. If you want both, you buy both and NX's shared ecosystem will allow you to crossbuy/save/play your games seamlessly. That's not it, but that's all that's relevent to this post.



se7en7thre3 said:
Emily Rodgers said:

 

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit. Anyone who is claiming that NX is “two times the power of PS4 GPU” is being misled by their sources. Based on what I’ve heard, I don’t believe the NX will compete directly with PS4 (Neo) / PS4K in raw power.

There will be plenty of debates over the NX’s specs because it’s not simple to directly compare two apples (with x86 architecture) to an orange (that doesn’t use x86 architecture). But everything that I’ve heard (so far) indicates that NX isn’t the PS4K competitor that some Nintendo fans are hoping for.

https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/05/13/so-about-nx/

Look at her play on words.  Raw power/specs is different from performance.  Number of shaders, compute units etc is rthe aw power. Now the performance rating of polaris is double, so if NX is closer or even weaker on paper as Emily implies (being a "stretch") with the raw numbers, it will still out perform the older tech.  10-12 cu, 

Also  look at  how she mentions  the ps4k competitor part, but that is a 4+ tf  console. Its obvious Emily is arguing about Polaris 10, even though most people are talking about polaris 11.  The polaris 10 (5+ tf) is the ridiculous rumor IMO.

Nothing has changed really, other than her shooting down the super ambitoius PS4k competitor claims.  I am in supermetal64's Polaris 11 + arm camp unless proven otherwise. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_4eNnMFFo

I dunno at this point SMD64 sounds like he's invested so much into the Polaris thing that he won't let it go easily, like he admits the portable could use Nvidia Tegra, but the console will still use Polaris. That's not happening with a unified platform, if the portable is using Nvidia Tegra tech then it's a virtual lock the console is just an upscaled version of that.



I'm not even sure of 1 TF anymore.

I think maybe something like

800 gigaflops for a microconsole

250 gigaflops for a tablet size portable

Is probably more realistic.