Jranation said: I wonder what her new hair will be in Bayo 3!?!?! |
Probably long flowing.
What do you think? | |||
:D | 63 | 24.32% | |
Bayonetta 3 on NX Confirmed | 138 | 53.28% | |
I want to more PG Games in NX | 42 | 16.22% | |
Now Vanquish 2 or TW102 on NX | 16 | 6.18% | |
Total: | 259 |
Jranation said: I wonder what her new hair will be in Bayo 3!?!?! |
Probably long flowing.
Bayonetta 2 has sold over 60,000 unit in Japan at retail, and last time i saw digital sales it was something like... about ~65,000? More or less, doesn't really matter, terrible sales.
It was at ~182,000 by November 2015 in USA too. Let's say it sold almost 200,000 by end of the year... thanks the riedition, it most likely did some numbers in February / March 2016 too... in USA. Let's talk about North America and including digital, maybe almost 300,000?
Europe should be close, though some people should keep in mind that this "60K" from France was just a prediction from Nintendo France, not an actual sold numbers... in the end, the game has sold 36,000 by end of 2014 in France at retail. Digital is about 20% or so, but back in 2014 digital sales were more close to ~15%, so, including digital the game could be 40-45k.
Let's estimate a lifetime sales now (May 2016) of 200,000/250,000 in Europe... well basically, we can just make estimate or guess, withouth numbers or anything.
If i should say my guess, i bet that Bayonetta 2 is about 700,000 unit worldwide, more or less. (probabily less :p)
fleischr said:
You totally misunderstand NPD's methodology. They don't aggregate every single transaction from POS data. They build statistical models to provide estimates. They sample, and extrapolate - but there are characteristics of Bayo 2 to which NPD can very easily over-normalize inputs in providing an accurate estimate (e.g. being a mature WiiU title, the low install base, poor Japan sales, the publisher's previous release: TW101). Add the noise of the NPD data being handed down not by NPD itself, but by a forum with only a little more credibility than VGC and you can see why I remain skeptical. The top 10 - 20 retail titles for Amazon monthly do tend to fall in a pretty similar order as NPD and largely made up of mainstream titles. While niche titles do top the the hourly, the monthly/yearly figures do end up closely resembling NPD. The truth is that Bayo 2 was and still is yet a a leading piece of the gaming mindshare. It's now a highly valued IP to the dedicated army of Nintendo fans that show up for 1st party releases. To say it's sold less than 200k is far out of step with the game's prominence and vibrant community. 700k+ WW is way more believable. |
No, YOU totally misunderstand NPD's methodology.
NPD currently captures at least 90% of total physical video game sales in the U.S., with the remaining 10% of the market projected by NPD for its monthly numbers. The 90% capture rate may have increased by 1 – 2% due to a data upgrade consisting of retailer additions, as well as existing category enhancements and methodology updates, which began with the September 2015 data feeds.
95% represents the maximum theoretical NPD accuracy. (i.e. they're 90% accurate in the worst-case scenario, and 95% accurate in the best-case scenario). Their numbers are estimates, sure, but they are almost COMPLETELY comprised of real POS numbers. The NPD Group specifically states that they have partnered with all of the major retailers in point-of-sale sharing agreements with which they use to aggregate their data.
I have NPD data and I know what I'm talking about. You don't know more than me in this area.
Lawlight said:
I don't think Bayonetta is deep at all - it's a hack n slash game like DmC. You just hack and slash and block on a timely manner. I'm curious to know what exactly is deep in that gameplay. |
You can literally break any game down like that.
Also, while story may not be the greatest thing ever, it has some of the best character dialogue and interaction in any game ever IMO.
Naum said:
Only if is has something to do with Nintendo... that that he or she hasn't been premabanned is beyond me. |
I played Bayonetta on the PS3.
Lawlight said:
I played Bayonetta on the PS3. |
Then I just feel sorry for you....
fleischr said:
You totally misunderstand NPD's methodology. They don't aggregate every single transaction from POS data. They build statistical models to provide estimates. They sample, and extrapolate - but there are characteristics of Bayo 2 to which NPD can very easily over-normalize inputs in providing an accurate estimate (e.g. being a mature WiiU title, the low install base, poor Japan sales, the publisher's previous release: TW101). Add the noise of the NPD data being handed down not by NPD itself, but by a forum with only a little more credibility than VGC and you can see why I remain skeptical. The top 10 - 20 retail titles for Amazon monthly do tend to fall in a pretty similar order as NPD and largely made up of mainstream titles. While niche titles do top the the hourly, the monthly/yearly figures do end up closely resembling NPD. The truth is that Bayo 2 was and still is yet a a leading piece of the gaming mindshare. It's now a highly valued IP to the dedicated army of Nintendo fans that show up for 1st party releases. To say it's sold less than 200k is far out of step with the game's prominence and vibrant community. 700k+ WW is way more believable. |
You're wrong.
I would go into depth but it seems Aqua has already done so.
It's a shame that you seem to be acting in defense of a game, rather than actually looking at the different methodologies in depth. It reminds me of how people say Call of Duty doesn't sell anymore when Black Ops III is the best selling title this generation. Projecting your own thoughts and beliefs is never a good idea when it comes to trying to understand actual market trends.
If you did look into this in a bit more detail you'd realise that Amazon only accounts for around 8% market share in the US Video Games retail market and the rankings they provide are nothing more of a guide for their own internal sales. Whereas the NPD Group directly track each unit at point of sale for more than 90% of the retail market. Assuming that VGChartz, or Amazon, or yourself is in a better position to tell how the game sold at all retail is a fallacy.
Congrats to the witch! Hope Enzo doesn't choke with all that money.
Now...bring us Vanquish 2.
DivinePaladin said:
MGR and DMC have just as nonsensical stories; the difference is that Bayonetta and MGR don't take themselves seriously in doing so, compared to later DMC games. To say the pacing or story in a DMC game is good is laughable, considering it's just about as self-indulgent!
As for gameplay, there's no argument to be had here. Bayonetta 1 came out of nowhere and perfected a genre that at that point was growing stagnant. GoW, by comparison, is one of the simpler hack and slash games, and Bayonetta absolutely trounces MGR and DMC in nuance. If you haven't gotten that you simply haven't played the game enough. You can prefer one series to another. THAT is subjective. When I say "best in the genre," I'm referring to the insane variety in the mechanics, weapons, dodges, cancels, enemy design, and so on. There's so much depth that it's absolutely nuts, even compared to other games in the genre. Nothing comes close to Bayonetta in that regard; the closest is a distant DMC, which makes sense since it was designed by mostly the same team. |
GOW's combat is simple yet effective, but there's a hidden depth to it that you have to unlock when playing in the highest difficulty setting. Try playing it, its a very different experience than playing GOW games on normal or hard mode.
KLXVER said:
Its fine that you like GOW more than Bayonetta, I just hope youre not saying that the combat in GOW is deeper. |
Wyrdness said:
I've played all those games and tbh B1 and B2 have combat that is overall well above those other games, only DMC3 comes close to them as combat while the enhanced editions of the original Ninja Gaiden on Xbox are also not far off. MGR's problem are the enemies and the some what smaller range of depth in approach compared to the other games, it's far easier to slash away in MGR but when it comes to going into depth it's mechanics and their uses are not only in a smaller range than the other games but don't allow as much differentiation in approach. DMC3 I can see where you're coming from but it's a different approach, DMC3 you pick a style that gives you unique tricks and you get creative with the tricks while in the Bayo games you have a massive system where you determine the combos you have access to as well as the style in approach to combat through your 2 weapon sets and accessories and then you play around with the other mechanics of the system on top of them like a sand box. Many people funny enough aren't even aware of all the mechanics in these games and I'm speaking from the POV as an avid follower of the genre who follows the community that explores the mechanics. DMC3 has plenty of variety the problem is it falls short because you can't fully mix up the system like you can in the Bayo game as it's only one style at a time and mechanics outside of the styles are limited. No offence but I wouldn't even put the GOW series near the other games when it comes to combat, the only game that has a system that comparably can be played around with as much as the Bayo games is DMC4 when playing as Dante or Vergil but the weapon choices in the game are far more limited and again the enemies offer weak resistance to high level players. Ninja Gaiden funny enough when it comes to clashing with enemies is the series that gives both Bayonetta games a run for its money as like in the latter games NG actually feels like you're engaged with formiddable enemies who can deal with you and you can't just attack mindlessly. Most technical action games in their mechanics are W101 and Transformers: Devastation. |
I never said that did I? The combat in GOW is great but look at my post, I said Bayonetta's combat is as good or better than the combat in the best GOW game. That said the puzzles, pacing and level design together elevate GOW's gameplay beyond that of Bayonetta.
Besides I also like GOW's unique approach of having different weapons not all accessed at one time, each weapon feels much more useful on its own than in the other games. The enemy variety is huge and waves are mixed up so you have to use different tactics.
In DMC 3 you can mix the weapons into a huge combo if you have the skills. Different approach to combat but I like it more. MGR's combat allows great levels of freedom due to its design. Bayonetta offers lots of options too but DMC 3 had a massive amount of variety.
Ballas said:
I never said that did I? The combat in GOW is great but look at my post, I said Bayonetta's combat is as good or better than the combat in the best GOW game. That said the puzzles, pacing and level design together elevate GOW's gameplay beyond that of Bayonetta. Besides I also like GOW's unique approach of having different weapons not all accessed at one time, each weapon feels much more useful on its own than in the other games. The enemy variety is huge and waves are mixed up so you have to use different tactics. In DMC 3 you can mix the weapons into a huge combo if you have the skills. Different approach to combat but I like it more. MGR's combat allows great levels of freedom due to its design. Bayonetta offers lots of options too but DMC 3 had a massive amount of variety. |
Bayonetta games have more variety though and that's in a straight up comparison as the are more differentiating set ups and approaches, no matter how much skill you have in DMC3 you can't emulate the amount of mix ups in Bayonetta as the design in DMC3 locks you to one style at a time when in play. They had the potential to do so in DMC4's system but they gave both Dante and Vergil a very small arsenal for some reason which is a shame as it allows the most free flowing creativity, you're right MGR offers more freedom then the other games although that's mainly because it has less depth in overall mechanics and choices.
The enemies in GOW can't really hold a candle to the other action titles tbh, you get waves of them but one enemy in the other games can put up a better fight than an entire wave in GOW, I agree the games have better approach outside of combat than the other games to make up for it, different goals after all.
To describe each game's approach to the genre, Bayonetta games (express yourself by making the system work to how your want it), DMC3/4 (free flowing and creativity based), GOW (standard raw combat but very good set pieces to make use of it), Ninja Gaiden (standard technical combat, approach situations with care), Wonderful 101 (highly technical probably the most technical on all levels down to your very inputs, resource managment and responses to enemies and situations), MGR (standard and slightly technical combat but very free flowing), Vanquish (fast free flowing shooter based action, a bit shallow but allows some good creativity), Transformers: Devastation (technical system that allows a large range of expressive play in combat from small bits of mechanics).