Nope. not even close. Everyone is just taking this too far and overreacting as usual. Think about this. would you have a problem if Sony says at E3

Here is the PS+. The world's first UHD sub $400 Blu-ray player. designed for to take full advantage of those jumping into 4k displays. And it has the added benefit of upscaling all upcoming PS4 games to 4k. And we are also announcing a price drop for the non 4k PS4. bla bla bla. 

See? doesn't sound that bad anymrie does it? 

I don't know what to say about that. to each their own I guess. 

I don't see what's wrong with Sony console lasting image here. It's not like the Neo is here to kill support for the PS4. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Sony making a PS4 capabale of playing UHD Blu-rays. Nothing wrong with them making the same box capabale of upscaling normal PS4 games to output at 4k. Nothing wrong with that same box improving performance slightly for games when connected to a 1080p box. 

And I don't understand people that have an issue with this. 

It's like saying I hate Sony for selling me a 1080p TV 3yrs ago and now releasing a 4k TV. or I hate MS for selling me an XB1 controller then releasing the elite controller. 

the way I see this is that if you or anyone has a 4k TV, want a 4k Blu-ray player. want to at least maybe be able to have u standard games upscaled to support 4k displays..... You will be all over this. 

It's not an "upgrade". it's an " option" for those that are into this. 

Until the present moment the PS4K, is just a Rumor, that Sony, don't think that is worth vanish with it.

if hypothetically it became true, even so this will not be the same as DRM, because people of the entire world will still be able to play without aways online mandatory, and Microsoft, don't gave another option when they launched the Xbox One, Don Mattrick, said that if people don't like the idea of Aways online, that they purchase a Xbox 360 Instead.

If you bought a 1080p TV 3 years ago under the impression that when tv shows and movies were going to be converted to a 1080p format by teams that were pouring all of their effort into making that 1080p experience the best possible for the next 6-8 years, and then Sony  turned around and told all of the people making that content that they're going to have to make all content 4K compatible too, you'd probably be concerned that the 1080p content you recieve from that point onwards wouldn't be done to the same degree of quality it otherwise would be.

And of course, this would be justified, as you and I both know that budgets for the conversion team aren't going to increase, so now they team has  less time to do the same work they were doing before since they now have to do this other work on top of it. Aside from that, even assuming they will be given a bigger budget and more man power, the program you use for processing and playing this 1080p content now has to be modified to support 4K content as well, this means that this program uses more of your system's resources as it has to constantly check which video conversion program it had to run in the background. This means that fundamentally, even if the same care is taken to ensure the 1080p content looks as good as possible, the quality will go down as the system now can't process the 1080p video at the same rate it's used to.

So unlike you, I would understand if buying a television was the exact same thing as buying a game console. But it isn't, so stop making such terrible analogies.

How about this.  Sony will be the first console maker to successfully implement a tiered system for consoles now and going forward.  No amount of disagreeing opinions from online forums  will change that as Sony has built enough good will with customers...and potential customers worldwide, to make it work.

Have they really? We're only 10 years removed from the debacle that was the launch of the PS3, and Sony still hasn't fully recovered from the hit that launch game them. Sure they have made a point of listening to their customers and making decisions with their fans in mind. But, this is not one of them. This is how you erase good will real quick.

Because I'm a pretty big Sony fan, and if this Neo is released and my base PS4 games begin to suffer in any capacity from the release of the PS4 Neo and the PS5, I will be 100% done with them, and pretty much abandon console gaming from that point onwards. This is from someone that has literally spent over $10,000 in Sony consoles, Sony  accessories and games for Sony console since the introduction of the first playstation. This pisses me off to my core. I am actually having a hard time coming with something short of outright illegal anti-consumer tactics that would push me to drop Sony more quickly and I am at a loss. I've cancelled all of my preordered for all PS4 games that I had pending, and will not be buying any PS4 games until more details are known. I'll probably cancel my PS VR preorder as well.

If they want to take all of the perks of console gaming out of console gaming and make it more like PC gaming, then I'll just go back to PC gaming. I am not putting up with this crap and I don't have to. If this rolls out the way I think about, this is literally going to be a text-book example of how to ruin your fan base and kill the momentum of your product in one move.

Thats just complete nonsense tho.... and here's why. 

Remember how when the PS3 was released it by default ran PS2 games better and cleaner? Or how when you play 1080p content on some 4k TVs the TV automatically upscaled the content?

That's what's happenning here. The only requirement Sony is imposing on devs as far as the Neo goes, and it's clear as day in their leaked devs documentation, is that all games supporting a Neo mode must run at native 1080p and at a frame rate NO LESS THAN THE BASE PS4. They are not requiring devs to make games look nicer or have more features. They even forbid the latter. 

And here is the thing. What all that does to ensure platform parity and compatibility is that they are encouraging devs to still focus on the PS4 as the lead platform. Having done that, with the extra muscle in the PS4k getting there engine to do all the PS4 did but at native 1080p will be nothing more complicated that a (slightly complex) toggle for their engine to output in 1080p. And such a step is only needed in the cases of games that output at 900p on the PS4. But games that output at 1080p already are gonna be just fine as is. Albeit have a better framerate by default. which knowing devs will even be locked. 

This is not a Sony turning around to release a SKU and forcing devs to make an expericne that's better than what they originally started with and sold to 40M people. This is Sony making a SKU that supports 4k TVs and having devs take advantage of the provided extra muscle to provide an expericne that's not even possible on the base PS4. 

This is Sony having a 1080p console and a 4k console. Simple as that. 

The fact that the PS4k is considerably more powerful means that devs don't have to tinker to much with it to make it meet those locked 1080p requirements. which is probably set in stone cause Sony probably plans to upscale all 1080p native PS4 content to 4k that supports the Neo. upscaling from 1080p>4k is a 1:1 upscale. as opposed to upscaling arbitrary resolution types which will introduce upscaling artifacts. 

Again, one is a 1080p console. one is a 4k console. nothing more nothing less. You simply can't do 4k with the PS4 effectively as is. It doesn't even have a HDMI 2.0 port. 

Nice try tho. 

So please then, go ahead and tell me how this isn't any more work for developers. I mean you'd literally have to have first hand experience making console video games in order to really know that, so I'm all ears. Because in my experience making PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP and PSV games, this is actually a lot more work than more people realize. I know this because I have done the work in similar situations. I know this because I know what certifying a game is like with Sony, and what they expect in terms of QA. I know this because I know the consequences of a game failing certification in certain ways.

This will require developers to do more work to make a cerifiable build of a PS4 game. Sure it's not nearly as much work as maintaining both a PS4 and X1 build, but it's still more. Based on my experience, more work equals one thing - less time for everything else. Games will suffer as a result of this move, I guarantee it. There's literally nothing you can do to convince me otherwise because I actually know better. I have seen it first hand dozens of times. I have seen countless features cut from games because resources had to be shifted to work on frame rate issues for example. This is the same kind of thing except you know up front that you have less time to actually make features than you did before, so you probably just won't even bother starting on that soon-to-be-cut feature to begin with. Either way that's still one less feature that the game had a chance at having had the PS4 Neo not been introduced, and that's a game suffering as a result, and that's just a feature that no one will miss, but it could be a extra 4-5 FPS that is "cut" or 1080p resolution vs 900p that gets "cut" as a result of time spent developing the PS Neo build.  And I'm not even talking about practically doubling the amount of QA work that needs to be done, because both builds will need to be tested essentially as if they are seperate platforms.

The mere requirement to support the PS4 Neo makes all PS4 games with a hard budget and hard release date suffer. Period.

Yes. and I designed the unreal engine. I simply don't buy that you are some sort of seasoned devs that has a clue what you are saying. Cause if you were then you would know this isn't nearly as grave or big as you make it sound. But I'll answer your question tho. 

Games on the PS4 already mostly run at a native 1080p. Some run at 900p. 

The Neo requires that ALL games run at 1080p native in Neo mode. So if you are a dev what does that mean?

You are using the same tools, the same SDK the same engine. The only difference is that you allow the game you are making if it's already in 1080p remain in 1080p or if it's at 900p take advantage of the increased allocated game available RAM and increased bandwidth and toggle for a 1080p output. 

We are not talking new libraries here, new features,a different CPU or memory architecture. Everything is the same just higher clocked or more powerful. If you are a dev you will know this. 

More work yes, but not the kinda work that will break any developers back or budget cause it's basically a glorified toggle that is designed to take advantage of the extra power available to them. If anything, the work wouldn't be to optimize already existing optimized code. But will be to set limiters. 

It's like a fair number of games right now that runs at an unlocked 30fps on the PS4. some devs give you the option to lock it to 30fps. Jesus I don't believe I'm having this argument with a dev. 

ok. your current PS4 game. does it work when you set the output on your console to 480p, 720p or 1080p? Honestly I'm done with this. you are trying really hard to make this about something  it's not and grossly overstating the complications of a resolution bump to hardware that already comes with the performance boost to handle most if the work already. 

the PS4 has 18CUs@800mhz and 5GB of available RAM @ 192GB/s. Do you really think a console with 36CU@900mhz and 5.5GB of RAM @ 210+GB/s requires a lot of work to either keep resolution at the default 1080p or bump it up from 900p requires game breaking work?????

And you say you are a dev???????? I really wish some on here in this forum that are actual devs can come and chime in on this. Cause I lost all respect for you the second you said you were a dev yet you are saying this nonsense. 

Anyways. let's leave it alone. Let's agree to disagree. 

Is there any way some administrator on this forum can verify my status as a video game developer? I'm open to it. I would seriously be more than happy to verify that I have my name in the credits of console video games. I mean this seriously. It would be great to have a little tag over my avatar just to quiet the likes of people like you.

I take it you're not a dev then? Just someone with a decent technical understanding that it working based purely on what they think it sbould work like with literally no hands-on experience. Let me say something I have said repeated on this site - Just because it appears to be feaisble from a theoretical point of view doesn't mean it's practical to do in real life. Just look around you. Just look at the dozens of developers that have spoken out against this. You do not have to take my word for it. I'm just a very small cog in an incredibly huge machine that is console video game development. There are a lot of people with a lot more technical know how and experience than I do that have voiced their experience. So, please go ahead and don't take my word for it. Take theirs.