snyps said:
I don't believe Nintendo fans would gain or lose anything by Nintendo switching or staying with the cpu architecture. X86 is cheaper to manufacture right now because of the laptop market.
the op is correct in his assessment. There's no noticeable effect for consumers. Good press releases hyped it up really well. X86 is obviously the top choice right now because the hw is cheaper and it's the platform of pc. That's as far as it goes.
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No. x86 isn't cheaper to manufacture.
Typically x86 die-sizes are massive compared to say... ARM or MIPS, heck probably even PowerPC (I haven't checked, can't be bothered either).
Die sizes have a direct relationship to production costs as you can fit less chips on a wafer and you get increasing amounts of failed chips due to yields.
Older fabrication nodes can also be cheaper than newer fabrication nodes as well due to maturity and the insane costs to retool fabs to something newer, Nintendo's "old" 45nm PowerPC chip is probably cheaper to produce than Jaguar... Up to a point. If you intend to make a 5~ Billion chip, then 45nm would be more expensive than 28nm.
However x86 reached a point of "good enough" due to the focus of smaller more power efficient chips for Small form factor PC's (Think: NUC, Tablets, Netbooks etc') that was never available in any other prior console generation and those smaller chips, whilst still more expensive than ARM, was offset by combining the GPU into the same silicon.
Internally AMD and Intel x86 is RISC, externally they are CISC.
WolfpackN64 said:
Those are a bunch of half truths. The Xbox 360 broke because of an GPU heating issue, not the CPU, the PS3 never had CPU issues. The PS2's emotion engine was basically an SoC with a MIPS CPU. The Wii U uses an old PPC core (about 4 generations behind current POWER cores), has an older GPU and a small amount of RAM
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The CPU heat added to the GPU heat, it compounded to the issue.
The PS3 CPU had issues related not to heat, but that's another discussion. :P
Ck1x said:
The current consoles mainly suffer from choosing such poor x86 cpu's, not the fact that they went over to x86. So my hope is that for Nintendo if they choose ARM or x86, that they make a very capable combination of cpu and gpu that allows developers to create games with the least amount of bottle necks as possible.
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Bang on.
AMD's CPU's are woefully inadequate, have been for a few years now. (Anyone who buys AMD in 2016 is nuts in my opinion.)
AMD's fastest are barely capable of beating Intel's low/mid-range parts, take AMD's slowest of the slowest (Console CPU's) and you come to the conclusion that CPU wise, these console are laughable.
It's not x86's fault, but rather AMD, they stagnated and fell behind, hopefully they can make up for lost ground with Zen.
Still. With that said... An 8 Core Jaguar is still superior to that of Cell or Xenon, it's more efficient, it's faster and easier to develop for, would have been nice though if console manufacturers took CPU performance seriously for once though, we would have better physics (Without needing to rely on the cloud), A.I. etc'.
baloofarsan said:
- 1. ease of software development
- 2. easier to port from PC to consoles (and vice versa)
- 3. shorter and cheaper development
- 4. more optimized code
- 5. using scalable game engines like UE4
- 6. most PS4/XB1 games still cost $60
- 7. many games have been rushed and/or delayed (i.e. planning was not easy despite the well known X86 architecture)
- 8. many games are not optimized (resolution, framerate etc) despite scalability of game engines.
- 9. games are migrating from consoles to PC but not many in the other direction.
- 10. higher development costs resulting in absurd sales demands.
- 11. developers closing down or migrating to mobile
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1) Development is easier, faster as less work can be done on inferior dev kits and instead be done on high-end PC workstations.
6) Cost is likely never to come down, only increase, Publishers want to make their Billions on re-released games every year.
7) Allot of that is because of deadlines/financial issues, rather than x86, lots of internal politics at Studio's/Publishers.
8) They are optimized... But if you had noticed... This generation has allot less "baked details". (I.E. Shadows/Lighting details in the textures) instead it's all dynamic, consoles caught up to PC on tech, this costs allot of resources to pull off and is often seen as a loss of optimization, when really it isn't, more is certainly happening on screen.
9) I wouldn't say games are migrating anywhere.
10) The easiest way to increase your sales is by increasing your Audience so you can afford higher development costs. - The PC has the largest gaming Audience and games have longer legs in terms of sales, so it makes financial sense.
11) There is billions to be made in Mobile, developers only have finite resources, if they can't compete in the console space, then they should refocus on where they can make money, they are business's, blame the consumers for not supporting them. :P
konkari said: Going to X86 architecture did not help at all in relation to mobile gaming, which is mostly on ARM arhitecture. Mobile device volumes are staggering which makes it attractive for developers. Still today the console games are far bigger and complex than mobile games despite the fact that the raw computing power of mobile devices is closing up on consoles. |
The thing with mobile is that App's and Games aren't really built for the particular hardware nuances, they are built for the API's/Software stacks, which is also part of the reason why x86 Android tablets/Phones can run the majority of the Android software ecosystem. (With the help of Binary translation too.)
Mobile is quickly evolving, but they are still nowhere near the consoles.
It's not like they can have a 250~ watt GPU backed with a few Gigabytes of HBM/XGDDR5 Ram to fuel their 1080P-4k resolutions in games, it will take them a good 5-10 years for them to get anywhere near the PS4.
Not only that... But high-end devices don't typically sell in great quantities, the majority of Android devices would still be slower than last generation consoles, which most developers target their games and software at.
baloofarsan said:
Would the situation be even worse if PPC architecture had continued in PS4/XB1?
With the newest rumored leak from Reddit* there is much hope (from commentators) that Nintendo at last also will use X86. Will a move to X86 solve any of Nintendos problems?
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It would solve allot of Nintendo's problems, especially with 3rd party support, developers are less likely to ignore it if their hardware is compatible with the other 3 platforms (PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4) on a technical level.
Nintendo has a bit of an uphill battle though, for one... They need to stop attacking Youtubers, who ironically help advertise their games and consoles.