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Forums - Gaming Discussion - LAIR kills competition in GAMER's DAY

windbane said:
albhum said:
kotaku... in this post the guy doesn't sound too much like an xbot, but normally they do. They seem to experience sexual pleasure when it comes to give bad news about the PS3. And then they are very understanding when it comes to bad news about the 360. As far as I'm concerned I'll avoid giving credibility to American blogs and sites at long as they don't drop the hope to make the world believe the 360 is the greatest deal and the very best of the consoles. I have the three of them and in my experience it is just not true. It's very annoying to see all this trashing over the PS3 just to support an American product. Even worse to see Europeans copying without any critical analysis, i.e. lower scores for Oblivion even if being a better version.

1up had the same lackluster reaction to Lair. Kotaku is pretty fair from what I've seen. Sure, a few of them slant one way or the other, but as a collective whole they are more balanced than most places. I think 1up/egm is the best overall, though.

Anyway, Brian Crecente (who I believe founded Kotaku) just spent a few days at the Sony Game Show and had articles on just about every hyped game there. He had high praise for Uncharted, Rachet, and many others. I think he's pretty fair.

I do understand your point, though. Most media has been too forgiving towards Microsoft and too harsh on Sony. It has changed lately, though, with the acknowledgement that Microsoft's hardware is pretty bad (still didn't fix the noise or red ring of death problems with the Elite), no one likes Live points to buy things, and Sony is turning it around. PSM, EGM, 1up.com, Kotaku, and many others have featured the upcoming onslaught of games that people on this forum have been trying to remind people were coming. Of course, we get criticized quite a lot for saying "wait until..." and giving game lists because so many people want to jump to conclusions...but I'm digressing...

I think Oblivion was rated lower because it was a year old game (PC version). It did however get .3% higher rankings than the PC version. All reviews mentioned that the game loaded twice as fast as the 360 version and looked significantly better. The major downside so far is that the PS3 version doesn't have Shivering Isles. It doesn't bother me as of yet considering I can't make a dent in that game no matter how long I spend on it, but it's a fair criticism. Of course, Bethesda could easily port the expansion over, and I hope they do. Very few games have extra content so far on the PSN, but Resistance, Motorstorm, and others are doing it so maybe others will follow.

Please keep posting to this site, though...it needs more people that aren't completely biased towards Microsoft and Nintendo, heh.

 


 Thanks for encouraging me to post. To tell you the truth I was expecting being accused of being a Sony fanboy , anti-American or something like it That's not the case, but I have to say people here are quite civilized.  In the Spanish forums I sometimes post people kill or die defentinding their console of choice. I also believe average age in VGchartz must be higher, though. 

Yes, you are right in your points about the guy from Kotaku not being unfair.  I kind of said so too, but the tradition is the one you pointed.  I do think that generally speaking, the US might be one of the most open markets in the world, if not the most, at least of the bigger countries.  It is mcuh harder to sell Japanese cars to French or Sony TVs to Dutch people, and no need to discuss Japan on market openness, whereas in the states the better product tends to win because consumers more often than not put value above country of origin.  

Your point about the lower scores of Oblivion is indeed the excuse, but makes no sense and has no historic reference. I mean, the reviewers know the following: A prospective buyer of consoles wants to buy a new system, he is very interested in playing the new Oblivion, and that will drive his decission.  He checks what platform the game is better and finds out it scores better in the 360. That is misleading. 

 

The first Zelda took three years to come to Europe, with that logic it should have gotten a 6 out of 10.  Final Fantasy 3 never came till the recent DS remake, does it deserve a 2 for being 15 years old?  Sorr, but that argument is just not valid.   THere are enough bad ports to PS3 to fairly score lower to need do this for the sake of doing it. 

 



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kars said:
windbane said:
 

That's a link to MICROSOFT'S response. Come one. That's been debunked already. All you haev to do is look at their bandwidth "analysis" to see they are completely making stuff up. Adding up bandwidth is no way to show anything. They have bottlenecks slower than PS3's, so the PS3 actually has more bandwidth between CPU, GPU, and memory.


 Sorry, but that's misleading too. If I think about what some people would like to do wit 6the SPEs the bandwidth would break down too.

In reality the problems are so complex that all these number games are in reality junk. You have to look much more into details. Some of their descriptions about the Cell and its SPE are in fact correct, some other statements are not quite correct.

The problems are in fact not really the bandwidth itself, but the distribution of bandwidth and in these aspecsts nobody writes the truth. I have a PS-3 and even developped for the PS-3 as well as for multi processor machines (although not the Xbox 360 itself), and to the best of my understandfing I would say that both machines are capable for more or less on the same level with slight advantages for one or the other plattform depending on the kind of game.  


wowwwww

talk about ignorance.

ps3 has access to Flex IO(35 g/s) + 25.6 g/s +22g/s (excluding that for YDRAM)

x360 has access to just 22.6g/s (excluding that for eDRAM).

ps3 is a minimum of 3x as powerful as x360.

even the full fledged White Engine doesnt run on x360.

google for SE's interview.

Kojima has also said that a downgraded version of MGS 4 is possible on x360.

ofcourse as you know Lair is only possible on ps3.

http://www.amazon.com/Factor5-Lair-ONLY-possible-the/forum/Fx1SF5I8IQVUR4L/TxWED4QH6HZ5OL/1/ref=cm_cd_seo_tp_redir/102-1135036-3006567?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=B0009VXAM0&store=videogames

IGN: Quick Fanboy wars question -- Could Lair be done under its current spec on the Xbox 360? If so, why go with the PlayStation 3 "only" instead of going cross-platform?

Eggebrecht: Lair in its current form couldn't be done on 360. We are using large amounts of Cell's SPUs for all of our geometry, landscape, simulations, animations, even troop AI. When we create a game, we absolutely focus on the platform it is designed around. Would we do one for 360, it would be a different game and a different engine -- most crucially perhaps though: Lair is an entirely different game without the motion control and gesture recognition since it was designed around it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p5.html



When did Kojima say that a massively downgraded version on MGS4 is possible?



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Even if I find the ps3 a better machine, I believe for all tech info I've read that both machines are capable of very similar things. This is not Dreamcast against GC or Xbox. The biggest advantage of PS is Blu-ray FOR GAMES. HD textures and CGI take much more storage space. Choosing DVD is IMO the same mistake as the cartridge for N64 or the Giga-CD for Dreamcast. Time will tell.



larry said:
kars said:
 

Sorry, but that's misleading too. If I think about what some people would like to do wit 6the SPEs the bandwidth would break down too.

In reality the problems are so complex that all these number games are in reality junk. You have to look much more into details. Some of their descriptions about the Cell and its SPE are in fact correct, some other statements are not quite correct.

The problems are in fact not really the bandwidth itself, but the distribution of bandwidth and in these aspecsts nobody writes the truth.
I have a PS-3 and even developped for the PS-3 as
well as for multi processor machines (although not the Xbox 360 itself), and to the best of my understandfing I would say that both machines are capable for more or less on the same level with slight advantages for one or the other plattform depending on the kind of game.


wowwwww

talk about ignorance.

ps3 has access to Flex IO(35 g/s) + 25.6 g/s +22g/s (excluding that for YDRAM)

x360 has access to just 22.6g/s (excluding that for eDRAM).

ps3 is a minimum of 3x as powerful as x360.

even the full fledged White Engine doesnt run on x360.

google for SE's interview.

Kojima has also said that a downgraded version of MGS 4 is possible on x360.

ofcourse as you know Lair is only possible on ps3.

http://www.amazon.com/Factor5-Lair-ONLY-possible-the/forum/Fx1SF5I8IQVUR4L/TxWED4QH6HZ5OL/1/ref=cm_cd_seo_tp_redir/102-1135036-3006567?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=B0009VXAM0&store=videogames

IGN: Quick Fanboy wars question -- Could Lair be done under its current spec on the Xbox 360? If so, why go with the PlayStation 3 "only" instead of going cross-platform?

Eggebrecht: Lair in its current form couldn't be done on 360. We are using large amounts of Cell's SPUs for all of our geometry, landscape, simulations, animations, even troop AI. When we create a game, we absolutely focus on the platform it is designed around. Would we do one for 360, it would be a different game and a different engine -- most crucially perhaps though: Lair is an entirely different game without the motion control and gesture recognition since it was designed around it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p5.html


Larry: these posts are now starting to get a bit ridiculous. Please read! The guy said that he has actually developed for the PS3, and you go ahead and call him ignorant?? Oh... the irony...

Have a bit of respect man… and until you start developing for the platform, I think most people would take his word over anything you’ve got to say. Give it a rest bro.



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Washimul (Larry) will never rest until he's banned. Until then, he'll just keep bashing people and talking about his Cell god, along with the rampage of 150k units in a month. Don't even try and post any facts around him; he just ignores them or makes up idiotic statements about them and usually contradicts what he says. I recall him saying something about the PS3 being 25,000 times stronger than a Wii?



larry said:


 

 





: Lair in its current form couldn't be done on 360.



 The Keyword is "in its current form". Both machines depend on slightly different approaches! In fact the Xbox 360 has a major advantage: Its approach is the same as it is needed on PCs (Which are already faster than the Cell itself, by the way, for most applications!), so the development of a Xbox 360 version would already improve the performance on multi core PCs.

The Cell was developed for very specail kinds of codes, but in the PS-3 the SPEs are no longer needed for the job for which they were needed in the original concept (GPU work). While it is understandable that Sony wants to justify its original investment, it has become obvious that the Cell is more of a problem itself, instead of a solution. In fact the main problems of both plattforms are rather different to the general expectations.

One of the biggest bottlenecks of the PS-3 the 256 MB RAM. Its size slows the whole system. The main problem of the Xbox 360 the size of its EDRAM, without this problem it would probably be doomsday for the PS-3.

These things say much more than burst rates. If you would really believe in such nonsense you would probably buy a PC based on the giga hertz value... But the real problems have more to do with the real interaction of different systems, while these numbers look so easy. 



it becomes even more obvious EVERY day that larry is washimul. He should be banned, you CANNOT even attempt to prove something with him one way or another, he simply DOES NOT LISTEN TO FACT, I can't believe people even still bother... Hus was more bearable than the blind deluded this guy must live in! I would love to have a scrap with larry (washimul) but unfortunately he has no idea about anything that he is talking about and doesn't respond properly to proper fact giving and arguments. I stand by my stance that he should be banned!



albhum said:
windbane said:
albhum said:
kotaku... in this post the guy doesn't sound too much like an xbot, but normally they do. They seem to experience sexual pleasure when it comes to give bad news about the PS3. And then they are very understanding when it comes to bad news about the 360. As far as I'm concerned I'll avoid giving credibility to American blogs and sites at long as they don't drop the hope to make the world believe the 360 is the greatest deal and the very best of the consoles. I have the three of them and in my experience it is just not true. It's very annoying to see all this trashing over the PS3 just to support an American product. Even worse to see Europeans copying without any critical analysis, i.e. lower scores for Oblivion even if being a better version.

1up had the same lackluster reaction to Lair. Kotaku is pretty fair from what I've seen. Sure, a few of them slant one way or the other, but as a collective whole they are more balanced than most places. I think 1up/egm is the best overall, though.

Anyway, Brian Crecente (who I believe founded Kotaku) just spent a few days at the Sony Game Show and had articles on just about every hyped game there. He had high praise for Uncharted, Rachet, and many others. I think he's pretty fair.

I do understand your point, though. Most media has been too forgiving towards Microsoft and too harsh on Sony. It has changed lately, though, with the acknowledgement that Microsoft's hardware is pretty bad (still didn't fix the noise or red ring of death problems with the Elite), no one likes Live points to buy things, and Sony is turning it around. PSM, EGM, 1up.com, Kotaku, and many others have featured the upcoming onslaught of games that people on this forum have been trying to remind people were coming. Of course, we get criticized quite a lot for saying "wait until..." and giving game lists because so many people want to jump to conclusions...but I'm digressing...

I think Oblivion was rated lower because it was a year old game (PC version). It did however get .3% higher rankings than the PC version. All reviews mentioned that the game loaded twice as fast as the 360 version and looked significantly better. The major downside so far is that the PS3 version doesn't have Shivering Isles. It doesn't bother me as of yet considering I can't make a dent in that game no matter how long I spend on it, but it's a fair criticism. Of course, Bethesda could easily port the expansion over, and I hope they do. Very few games have extra content so far on the PSN, but Resistance, Motorstorm, and others are doing it so maybe others will follow.

Please keep posting to this site, though...it needs more people that aren't completely biased towards Microsoft and Nintendo, heh.

 


Thanks for encouraging me to post. To tell you the truth I was expecting being accused of being a Sony fanboy , anti-American or something like it That's not the case, but I have to say people here are quite civilized. In the Spanish forums I sometimes post people kill or die defentinding their console of choice. I also believe average age in VGchartz must be higher, though.

Yes, you are right in your points about the guy from Kotaku not being unfair. I kind of said so too, but the tradition is the one you pointed. I do think that generally speaking, the US might be one of the most open markets in the world, if not the most, at least of the bigger countries. It is mcuh harder to sell Japanese cars to French or Sony TVs to Dutch people, and no need to discuss Japan on market openness, whereas in the states the better product tends to win because consumers more often than not put value above country of origin.

Your point about the lower scores of Oblivion is indeed the excuse, but makes no sense and has no historic reference. I mean, the reviewers know the following: A prospective buyer of consoles wants to buy a new system, he is very interested in playing the new Oblivion, and that will drive his decission. He checks what platform the game is better and finds out it scores better in the 360. That is misleading.

 

The first Zelda took three years to come to Europe, with that logic it should have gotten a 6 out of 10. Final Fantasy 3 never came till the recent DS remake, does it deserve a 2 for being 15 years old? Sorr, but that argument is just not valid. THere are enough bad ports to PS3 to fairly score lower to need do this for the sake of doing it.

 


You make a good point about Oblivion.  Some games do age if they are released years later, but Oblivion actually looks and plays better on the PS3.  I have heard that they are going to patch the 360 and PC versions so that it looks as good, but reviewers shouldn't take that into account since they never review patched stuff.  Also, Shivering Isles shouldn't have accounted for the lower reviews, either, and I hope it does eventually make its way to the PS3 anyway.  However, the scores were within a percentage point, so it wasn't that bad.   I do agree that the ratings should have been higher, though.  Load times cut in half, draw distance better, and graphics enhanced.



Yeah, and albhum, you'll find that people here don't really care which console's your favorite...it's when someone flaunts it all over the place and act immature that they get bashed. Most of us here aren't crazy though.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )