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Forums - Nintendo - I think third party devs have a mindset that gimped Wii games will sell anyways....

ItsaMii said:

Your reasoning isn`t wrong WoW, but I think you are missing 2 points.

1) 360/PS3/PC is not a single entity (credits to Bod). Building a game for one of these platforms does not guarantee that the porting will go smoothly. 360 and PC may be similar, but PS3 is not so easy. It takes several months to make a good port evenwhen they start developing on the consoles at the same time. Porting costs are not insignificant. One could make an good game for the Wii with the money to port a AAA PS3/Xbox360 game. The userbases have different tastes, so making a multiplatform game can be bad for business (like a game selling ok on one console and breaking even/losing money on the other).

2) You are right in theory, refusing to support the Wii is not a one way trip to hell. Some developers/publishers proved this: Ubisoft, Epic and Activision. Everyone else is either bleeding money or showing us a pathetic performance this gen. Midway, THQ have crappy sales all around and are losing trucks of money. Take 2 and EA have ok sales (much less than last gen) but are losing lots of money. Konami and Square Enix are 2 big non factors, they are not making Wii games, but their HD console games are few and far between. Sega, Capcom and Ubisoft are supporting everyone evenly.

My conclusion is that only really big and profitable companies like Ubisoft and Activision could choose to ignore the Wii (even though they are not doing it).


1)  Porting costs, while not insignificant, shouldn't be overestimated either.  It's far easier to port an existing game than to build an entirely new one in most cases I'd wager.  Indeed the PC and 360 are very similar in development which naturally makes 360/PC games an easy choice.  Right there you can hit a good portion of the gaming public and with the userbase of the PS3 growing and its specs fairly close to the 360, it's another natural choice for porting.  You can say it's more difficult and somewhat costly, but developers are showing with one multiplatform game after another that, to them, the profits (and brand exposure) outweigh the costs.  I can guarantee you that they wouldn't be making ports if they expected to take a bath on their investments.

2)  To be fair, Midway and THQ are not all-star developers in the first place.  After playing THQ's Titan's Quest for the PC, I was very much less than impressed.  In looking at their respective lineups, it's easy to point out shovelware left and right in them.  I don't think picking a couple crappy developers and saying that their sales are bad proves anything about the PS3/360.  On the contrary, the fact that PS3/360 owners won't necessarily buy crap and shovelware as it is apparent some Wii owners do is a good thing.  You can see the result for yourself.  The shovelware goes to the Wii while the big name titles (that the developers know people will buy) go to the 360/PS3.

Your points are well-taken if a little flawed.  ^_^



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Fortunately, the game industry will never become a market consisting of only one type of game, thanks to how competition works. If all firms produce identical or near-identical products and sell them for the same price, then certain firms will eventually drop out due to there being no room in the industry to accomodate for them. Eventually, an equilibrium is met where the number of casual game developers and the price asked for their games match up just right so that the amount of casual games demanded by gamers at that price results in all firms in the market making enough to cover explicit costs.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

Words Of Wisdom said:
ItsaMii said:

Your reasoning isn`t wrong WoW, but I think you are missing 2 points.

1) 360/PS3/PC is not a single entity (credits to Bod). Building a game for one of these platforms does not guarantee that the porting will go smoothly. 360 and PC may be similar, but PS3 is not so easy. It takes several months to make a good port evenwhen they start developing on the consoles at the same time. Porting costs are not insignificant. One could make an good game for the Wii with the money to port a AAA PS3/Xbox360 game. The userbases have different tastes, so making a multiplatform game can be bad for business (like a game selling ok on one console and breaking even/losing money on the other).

2) You are right in theory, refusing to support the Wii is not a one way trip to hell. Some developers/publishers proved this: Ubisoft, Epic and Activision. Everyone else is either bleeding money or showing us a pathetic performance this gen. Midway, THQ have crappy sales all around and are losing trucks of money. Take 2 and EA have ok sales (much less than last gen) but are losing lots of money. Konami and Square Enix are 2 big non factors, they are not making Wii games, but their HD console games are few and far between. Sega, Capcom and Ubisoft are supporting everyone evenly.

My conclusion is that only really big and profitable companies like Ubisoft and Activision could choose to ignore the Wii (even though they are not doing it).


1) Porting costs, while not insignificant, shouldn't be overestimated either. It's far easier to port an existing game than to build an entirely new one in most cases I'd wager. Indeed the PC and 360 are very similar in development which naturally makes 360/PC games an easy choice. Right there you can hit a good portion of the gaming public and with the userbase of the PS3 growing and its specs fairly close to the 360, it's another natural choice for porting. You can say it's more difficult and somewhat costly, but developers are showing with one multiplatform game after another that, to them, the profits (and brand exposure) outweigh the costs. I can guarantee you that they wouldn't be making ports if they expected to take a bath on their investments.

2) To be fair, Midway and THQ are not all-star developers in the first place. After playing THQ's Titan's Quest for the PC, I was very much less than impressed. In looking at their respective lineups, it's easy to point out shovelware left and right in them. I don't think picking a couple crappy developers and saying that their sales are bad proves anything about the PS3/360. On the contrary, the fact that PS3/360 owners won't necessarily buy crap and shovelware as it is apparent some Wii owners do is a good thing. You can see the result for yourself. The shovelware goes to the Wii while the big name titles (that the developers know people will buy) go to the 360/PS3.

Your points are well-taken if a little flawed. ^_^


Stranglehold, Kane & Lynch, NBA Live, Need for Speed, Assassin's Creed ( impressive but boring to death ), FIFA, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition. Not as crappy as Carnival Games or Smartpants but still far from great games.

And BTW people, please play before judging Mario & Sonic. I'd take it over any other game in the list above. 



Words Of Wisdom said:
routsounmanman said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
RolStoppable said:
The way things are running, most third parties sooner or later will realize that their current approach won't work and that they have to make better games for the Wii if they want to stay in business. If they don't... well, that's their problem.

Why? The userbase of the PS3 and 360 go up every day. Each day the potential for profit goes up and once you have an engine built you can reuse combined with developer experience which grows with each new undertaking on the respective platforms you have a recipe for productivity. Developers may have trouble on the first PS3 game or two, but once they figure out its kinks their costs will drop. On top of that, HD graphics are the future. The more developers focus on the non-HD graphics, the more handicapped they'll be in the next generation when every system is HD bar none.

Developers who support the PS3/360 won't suddenly go out of business because they don't support the Wii and it's more than likely they'll be in a much better position skill-wise next generation if they support the other systems.


It's like you want to be in the stock market and you ignore Wall Street; or into movie producing and ignoring Hollywood. You just cannot turn your back on the market leader. You'll do your best to get a share of the pie.


Nintendo is not the Wall Street of the gaming industry. It just spent the last two generations in the dump and its latest system is no more appealing to developers than its previous ones.

Even the National Enquirer has had a few good runs during its lifetime, but people looking for real news are going to pick up the Wallstreet Journal or the New York Times instead.


Look at the sheer volume of software and hardware sales on Nintendo platforms. Oh it is the Wall Street of video games market. At least in volume size if not importance too.



There's still a battle going on where Devs just want to stick with traditional ideas but the Wii is truly a first in terms of a platform that could survive with the minimum 3rd party support and inspiration and imagination alone could make vast amounts of money.

For every big dev not giving 100% they'll always be a Majestico where Nintendo platforms have turned their fortunes with cooking Mama and now Blastworks looks really creative and a fresh new IP.

Wii's market leading gap is only getting larger week after week and as the standard of each genre gets raised on the Wii and the library gets larger - their effort will also increase.



 


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I blame Carnival Games.



Nintendo is the National Enquirerer of the gaming industry? If thats the case, then Sony is the Star and Microsoft is the U.S. News. My God some of the statements that people make. Yes, high definition graphics are PART of the future but so are motion sensing controls. The original Nintendo was the best selling video game console ever at the time and the Wii is headed in the same direction . They were around before Sony or Microsoft were even in the industry. They are the Enquirer? Please. Nintendo figured out what sells a long time ago. Games that are fun to play. They tried being the company with the graphical powerhouse console ( N64) and that didn't work because Sony put out 10 games to there one because it was harder to develop for. People talk about the Wii shovelware . Look at PS1. Quantity over quality was there mantra and it worked. If you want to say that they are the Enquirer then you are entitled to speak your mind but so am I. I'll say that say that Nintendo is like eating at an above average restaraunt and Sony is McDonald's and Microsoft is Burger King.



Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

bigjon said:
ok... what if.. the FPS FAD goes away... then what does the 360 have left? I personally don't care for FPS games, and think it is lame the 360 is covered all over with them.

The 360 has how many AAA non- FPS(or TFPS) exclusives? ... Lost Od? is that triple A? ... more like AA.5... help me hear I am having a hard time with this one...

oh ya, and to the guy who said that 3rd parties all hate nintendo.... I think you are still stuck in the Yamachi days. Iwata has done a great job repairing relationships. Almost every 3rd party is putting good(not their AAA yet) games on the Wii. Capcom(RE, UC, Z&W), Tecmo(Fatal Frame), Konami(DDR, PES) I'll keep going, but these are all games that would not have come to a Nintendo system in the era you are referring to(N64).

The 360 isn't just getting FPS games. It's getting a lot of games in different genres.

For example...

Sandbox Titles

Grand Theft Auto 4
Saints Row 2
Just Cause 2
Prototype
Mercenaries 2
This is Vegas
Wheelman
Soboteur
Mafia 2
Hei$t

Western RPGs

Fallout 3
Fable 2
Mass Effect 2
Aliens RPG
Too Human
Two Worlds: The Temptation
Alpha Protocol
Sacred 2: Fallen Angel
Rise of the Argonauts
Dungeon Hero

Strategy

Halo Wars
Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution
Tom Clancy's EndWar
World in Conflict
Universe At War: Earth Assault
Supreme Commander
Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
Operation Darkness
Battlestations: Pacific
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3

Adventure

Resident Evil 5
Brutal Legend
Silent Hill 5
Tomb Raider Underworld
Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust
Edge of Twilight
Banjo Kazooie 3
Ninja Gaiden 2
Incarnate
Theseis
Saw

Sports

NBA Ballers: Chosen One
Madden NFL 09
Tiger Woods 2009
NHL 09
UEFA Euro 2008
WorldWide Soccer Manager 2008
Blood Bowl
Skate 2
Facebreaker
NFL Head Coach 2009
Top Spin 3

Racing

GRiD
Nascar 09
Pure
Midnight Club: Los Angeles
Baja
GTR
Crash Time
DiRT 2
Need for Speed 2008

There are others in those categories I missed as well as JRPGs, simulations, fighters, and kids games that I didn't bother to list. In fact less than 20% 360's library is made up of first person shooters so hopefully people will stop spreading the misconception that it's library is just made up mostly of them.



Okay , now how many of those titles are Xbox 360 exclusives?



Proud member of the SONIC SUPPORT SQUAD

Tag "Sorry man. Someone pissed in my Wheaties."

"There are like ten games a year that sell over a million units."  High Voltage CEO -  Eric Nofsinger

amp316 said:
Okay , now how many of those titles are Xbox 360 exclusives?

 Does it really matter?