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Forums - Sports Discussion - Will DOPING be more prevalent in Women's Sports with the the entry of transgendered females?

For those who don't believe:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery



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Ka-pi96 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Because shooting, darts and snooker are "traditionally male sports". But from footbal to sprinting, the real physical difference isn't that big.

I dunno about that. The womens 100m record is 10.49 seconds, to put that in to perspective out of the 23 men that ran in the 2012 Olympics 100m semi finals the slowest time was 10.31 seconds. That means the fastest woman ever wouldn't have even been in the top 23 in the mens competition, let alone had a chance at a medal.

Go to more physical sports and I expect that difference would become even larger. Women couldn't hope to compete at the top level in sports such as Rugby or Boxing. Sure some women are far better at sport than some men could ever be, but when it comes to the highest level the men are just out of reach.

That's the diference now, but it's a small gap. Look at the difference between men and women marathon times. When women first started competing in marathons, the fastest woman was generally 2 hours slower than the fastest man. The difference now has shrunk to 1 or 2 minutes.



WolfpackN64 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

I dunno about that. The womens 100m record is 10.49 seconds, to put that in to perspective out of the 23 men that ran in the 2012 Olympics 100m semi finals the slowest time was 10.31 seconds. That means the fastest woman ever wouldn't have even been in the top 23 in the mens competition, let alone had a chance at a medal.

Go to more physical sports and I expect that difference would become even larger. Women couldn't hope to compete at the top level in sports such as Rugby or Boxing. Sure some women are far better at sport than some men could ever be, but when it comes to the highest level the men are just out of reach.

That's the diference now, but it's a small gap. Look at the difference between men and women marathon times. When women first started competing in marathons, the fastest woman was generally 2 hours slower than the fastest man. The difference now has shrunk to 1 or 2 minutes.

Want to maybe point to a specific example?

I'm looking at the 2015 London marathon and the fastest woman (2:23:22) was almost 20 minutes slower than the fastest man (2:04:42), that's still quite a gap. Besides, considering the fastest men were about 2hrs 5mins or so I find it difficult to believe the fastest women used to take twice that long.



Are transgendered being allowed to play on female teams?



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kurasakiichimaru said:

Just my thought.

Since doping has been pretty well discussed. Will it hurt the balance of the competition between women? Will more female athletes resort to doping or harder drugs just to keep up with the competition? 

Will women start doping more to compete aginast men who think they're women? Probably not. Women have been doping since at least the 70's when the Germans made headlines. 

On a side note, men competeing against women just because they think they're women should be banned. They're not women genetically and it's not fair at all.



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jonager said:
WolfpackN64 said:
The physical advantage of males is in most sports negligible or even non-existent. You could just mix alot of the sports.

i really doubt this, i wouldn't bet my money on federer or djokovic losing to serena in 5 sets match.

Actually the sisters were trying to defeat the 100th best male tennis player in the world. He turned out to be this drunk, who had a very lax training regimen, smoked on the court during breaks and played them softballs on purpose so they would have a chance. They still lost miserably.

Afterwards they changed it to something like the 130th. The guy turned right around and told them to get a rematch, as his rank had just dropped to that......I think they gave up challenging male Tennis players after that.

Females and males have drastically diffrent upper body strengh, it's nothing to scoff at. Men have less flexibility and more explosive muscle power in general, making them better at short distance running, jumping, swimming and throwing. Females flexibility makes them better at any kind of gymnastics, figure scating, ballet and high diving. Males are also supposed to have better reaction times than females, which makes a big diffrence in esports. Especially twitchy ones like SSB or LOL. (There's no evidence for males being superior strategists as far as I'm aware, which is why that all male Hearthstone turnament was one of the rare occasions of genuine bullshit on the turnament scene.)

All in all. Mixed Teams are cool and should be done more, but the seperation is overall very much justified.



SuperNova said:
jonager said:

i really doubt this, i wouldn't bet my money on federer or djokovic losing to serena in 5 sets match.

Actually the sisters were trying to defeat the 100th best male tennis player in the world. He turned out to be this drunk, who had a very lax training regimen, smoked on the court during breaks and played them softballs on purpose so they would have a chance. They still lost miserably.

Afterwards they changed it to something like the 130th. The guy turned right around and told them to get a rematch, as his rank had just dropped to that......I think they gave up challenging male Tennis players after that.

That's... a joke right? Especially that first part? Surely that didn't actually happen?



Ka-pi96 said:
SuperNova said:

Actually the sisters were trying to defeat the 100th best male tennis player in the world. He turned out to be this drunk, who had a very lax training regimen, smoked on the court during breaks and played them softballs on purpose so they would have a chance. They still lost miserably.

Afterwards they changed it to something like the 130th. The guy turned right around and told them to get a rematch, as his rank had just dropped to that......I think they gave up challenging male Tennis players after that.

That's... a joke right? Especially that first part? Surely that didn't actually happen?

I know, right? It's true though. I got my facts wrong though, it was outside of the 200 best male players, and he was the 203rd at the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsten_Braasch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_%28tennis%29#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters



WolfpackN64 said:
WC4Life said:

What are you talking about? Care to explain what you mean by "most sports"? And what sports could be mixed? If we look at some sports where athletism isn't the main factor, like shooting, darts or snooker...even in these sports women cannot compete against men at all, so what the hell are you talking about? What obvious thing I'm missing, please tell me.

 

edit: Equestrian is one of the very few sports where women can compete against men and that's only because the horse plays the most dominant part in the performance and biomechanically the horse works independently.

edit2: There are already rules in many sports how athletes are classified either a male or a female, so this has been already thought out.

Because shooting, darts and snooker are "traditionally male sports". But from footbal to sprinting, the real physical difference isn't that big.

The difference in physical performance in sports are huge between men and women, how on earth could anyone suggest otherwise?

Take discus as an example; males throw a 2kg discus and the weight decreases with age of the competitors in entry (it goes down after age 49), men 60 years old + throw a one kilo discus, while female athletes throw a one kile discus througout their entire career. With that in mind, seeing that the women's record is around 2 meter longer than the men's record, with a discus that weight half as much, that's pretty telling.

In the 100 meters dash, the current female world record is the same time that the men had as their best over a century ago and 106 men have broken the 10 second barrier. It is thus reasonable to assume that the best woman in the world is not even in the top 500 of the men, which is also very telling.
As the distance increases to 200 meters, the difference remains roughly the same, the best female time is over two seconds behind the best male time, and in this event it is likely that the best woman in the world would not feature in the top 1000 of the men.
400 meters? Same there, over four seconds difference, a pattern is emerging.

In the 800 meters, the difference is a whooping 12.5 seconds and on the 1500 meters it's 24 seconds. On 3000 it's around 45 seconds. 5000 meters times are 1.24 minutes apart between men and women and 10.000 meters 2.14 minutes. That's nearly three laps of the track during the fast laps.

Long jump shows that women are about 1.5 meters behind in the top tier, triple jump almost 4 meters. The high jump for men has a record that is 36 centimeters above the female record and the female top tier is about the same as the males were in the 1930's. Pole vault shows a difference of 1.10 meters between men and women.

In shot put, again we see an object of nearly half the weight (4 kilos versus 7.2) being thrown roughly the same distance (a little shorter, in fact), which says a lot about the huge difference in strength between genders. In javelin, the weight difference is a lot smaller, with the male implement weighing around 33% more (800 grams versus 600 grams for women) and this has a dramatic effect on results, the women's record is a staggering 26.2 meters behind the men's record in this event. Hammer throw is much the same as shot put; they weight 7.2 kilos for men and 4 kilos for women and the women throw it a little bit shorter.

In sports like soccer, handball, tennis, volleyball and practically every physical sport there is, men will have a significant advantage with more strength, stamina and usually better coordination due to better spatial awareness.

You simply cannot argue against facts; the difference between men and women is sports is massive.



Mummelmann said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Because shooting, darts and snooker are "traditionally male sports". But from footbal to sprinting, the real physical difference isn't that big.

The difference in physical performance in sports are huge between men and women, how on earth could anyone suggest otherwise?

Take discus as an example; males throw a 2kg discus and the weight decreases with age of the competitors in entry (it goes down after age 49), men 60 years old + throw a one kilo discus, while female athletes throw a one kile discus througout their entire career. With that in mind, seeing that the women's record is around 2 meter longer than the men's record, with a discus that weight half as much, that's pretty telling.

In the 100 meters dash, the current female world record is the same time that the men had as their best over a century ago and 106 men have broken the 10 second barrier. It is thus reasonable to assume that the best woman in the world is not even in the top 500 of the men, which is also very telling.
As the distance increases to 200 meters, the difference remains roughly the same, the best female time is over two seconds behind the best male time, and in this event it is likely that the best woman in the world would not feature in the top 1000 of the men.
400 meters? Same there, over four seconds difference, a pattern is emerging.

In the 800 meters, the difference is a whooping 12.5 seconds and on the 1500 meters it's 24 seconds. On 3000 it's around 45 seconds. 5000 meters times are 1.24 minutes apart between men and women and 10.000 meters 2.14 minutes. That's nearly three laps of the track during the fast laps.

Long jump shows that women are about 1.5 meters behind in the top tier, triple jump almost 4 meters. The high jump for men has a record that is 36 centimeters above the female record and the female top tier is about the same as the males were in the 1930's. Pole vault shows a difference of 1.10 meters between men and women.

In shot put, again we see an object of nearly half the weight (4 kilos versus 7.2) being thrown roughly the same distance (a little shorter, in fact), which says a lot about the huge difference in strength between genders. In javelin, the weight difference is a lot smaller, with the male implement weighing around 33% more (800 grams versus 600 grams for women) and this has a dramatic effect on results, the women's record is a staggering 26.2 meters behind the men's record in this event. Hammer throw is much the same as shot put; they weight 7.2 kilos for men and 4 kilos for women and the women throw it a little bit shorter.

In sports like soccer, handball, tennis, volleyball and practically every physical sport there is, men will have a significant advantage with more strength, stamina and usually better coordination due to better spatial awareness.

You simply cannot argue against facts; the difference between men and women is sports is massive.

Well said, I don't think there's really anything else to add to this, men are just better than women at physical sports.