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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Guardian: 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income

Lawlight said:

The 18-35 are fine. If they chose to do more than liberal arts/social sciences degrees and spend their time on social media.

The cost of education significantly increased over the past twenty years.  So, making the same good or bad decisions do have very different consequences for people.

For example, my university tuition in 1996 was $2K/semester, when I attended in 2006 it was $4K/semester, and now in 2016 it is $6K/semester.  Given most people take 8 semesters that means same degree went from $16K to $32K to $48K to achieve.  This isn't unusual as national average increase over past twenty years is a 179% increase.

I agree to an extent that we may need a generation that rethinks university and less people go as cost/benefit has changed so much from a generation ago and those that go have a good idea what degree and field they want in.  May not be bad for many 18 year olds to spend some time working to build up a bit of money and learn more about what they want to do in life before comitting to higher education.



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Augen said:
Lawlight said:

The 18-35 are fine. If they chose to do more than liberal arts/social sciences degrees and spend their time on social media.

The cost of education significantly increased over the past twenty years.  So, making the same good or bad decisions do have very different consequences for people.

For example, my university tuition in 1996 was $2K/semester, when I attended in 2006 it was $4K/semester, and now in 2016 it is $6K/semester.  Given most people take 8 semesters that means same degree went from $16K to $32K to $48K to achieve.  This isn't unusual as national average increase over past twenty years is a 179% increase.

I agree to an extent that we may need a generation that rethinks university and less people go as cost/benefit has changed so much from a generation ago and those that go have a good idea what degree and field they want in.  May not be bad for many 18 year olds to spend some time working to build up a bit of money and learn more about what they want to do in life before comitting to higher education.

Part of that is that education has become an arms race for the best teachers, facilities, and programs. With so much competition from other schools and students having so many options, the costs have skyrocketed as well. One of the many facets as to why cost of education has increased so much.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

outlawauron said:
Augen said:

The cost of education significantly increased over the past twenty years.  So, making the same good or bad decisions do have very different consequences for people.

For example, my university tuition in 1996 was $2K/semester, when I attended in 2006 it was $4K/semester, and now in 2016 it is $6K/semester.  Given most people take 8 semesters that means same degree went from $16K to $32K to $48K to achieve.  This isn't unusual as national average increase over past twenty years is a 179% increase.

I agree to an extent that we may need a generation that rethinks university and less people go as cost/benefit has changed so much from a generation ago and those that go have a good idea what degree and field they want in.  May not be bad for many 18 year olds to spend some time working to build up a bit of money and learn more about what they want to do in life before comitting to higher education.

Part of that is that education has become an arms race for the best teachers, facilities, and programs. With so much competition from other schools and students having so many options, the costs have skyrocketed as well. One of the many facets as to why cost of education has increased so much.

That and, to copy myself from a post above,  how Administrators and other higher ups - when making budget cuts - seem to turn their attention to cutting school funding or nickeling and diming through parking passes etc instead of taking a cut to their own salary. At least that is the way it seems to me.

Continually they'll chip a way at funding and let students foot the bill, because they know we don't have much of a choice if we want a post-secondary education. Textbooks, parking passes, student association fees etc etc. In German public schools students (including foreign) pay ~$200 a semester as a total all-encompassing fee and have a city-wide bus pass thrown in.

So ridiculous



#1 Amb-ass-ador

ReimTime said:
outlawauron said:

Part of that is that education has become an arms race for the best teachers, facilities, and programs. With so much competition from other schools and students having so many options, the costs have skyrocketed as well. One of the many facets as to why cost of education has increased so much.

That and, to copy myself from a post above,  how Administrators and other higher ups - when making budget cuts - seem to turn their attention to cutting school funding or nickeling and diming through parking passes etc instead of taking a cut to their own salary. At least that is the way it seems to me.

Continually they'll chip a way at funding and let students foot the bill, because they know we don't have much of a choice if we want a post-secondary education. Textbooks, parking passes, student association fees etc etc. In German public schools students (including foreign) pay ~$200 a semester as a total all-encompassing fee and have a city-wide bus pass thrown in.

So ridiculous

There are always some caveats to this. Looking up rates that are charged, they seem pretty similar to what you'd see at universities in the US.

The biggest issue in making international comparisons is that education is largely legislated at state level, not national level. For instance, my state university has free tuitiion for all students who live in that state (through the TOPS program) who keep up certain GPA requirements (that are fairly easy). So, it's not like everyone in the US is completely screwed when it comes to school. There are so many scholarships, grants, and programs available to students, that many can get college for free. My wife was paid money by the state and federal government to go to school. :-/

For the rest of the post, I agree that administrators see themselves as sacred cows. No one wants to cut their own salary. Spreading out cost through hidden fees is pretty terrible, but that's how things are in most industries dependant on recurring customers (I think about rent tenants, airline customers, etc).



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

2 terms:

global unconditional basic need coverage and one child policy



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outlawauron said:
ReimTime said:

That and, to copy myself from a post above,  how Administrators and other higher ups - when making budget cuts - seem to turn their attention to cutting school funding or nickeling and diming through parking passes etc instead of taking a cut to their own salary. At least that is the way it seems to me.

Continually they'll chip a way at funding and let students foot the bill, because they know we don't have much of a choice if we want a post-secondary education. Textbooks, parking passes, student association fees etc etc. In German public schools students (including foreign) pay ~$200 a semester as a total all-encompassing fee and have a city-wide bus pass thrown in.

So ridiculous

There are always some caveats to this. Looking up rates that are charged, they seem pretty similar to what you'd see at universities in the US.

The biggest issue in making international comparisons is that education is largely legislated at state level, not national level. For instance, my state university has free tuitiion for all students who live in that state (through the TOPS program) who keep up certain GPA requirements (that are fairly easy). So, it's not like everyone in the US is completely screwed when it comes to school. There are so many scholarships, grants, and programs available to students, that many can get college for free. My wife was paid money by the state and federal government to go to school. :-/

For the rest of the post, I agree that administrators see themselves as sacred cows. No one wants to cut their own salary. Spreading out cost through hidden fees is pretty terrible, but that's how things are in most industries dependant on recurring customers (I think about rent tenants, airline customers, etc).

Really? I had no idea, that is good to hear. See the biggest thing when it comes to my area - to do with scholarships and grants that is - is that many are not even applied for and are thus wasted. There are a huge amount of scholarships and grants here too but almost nobody applies for them; it's quite sad really. A lot of them are virtually unheard of too unless you specifically look for them - which is probably why many go unclaimed annually. For instance, the Japanese-Mennonite scholarship of Canada, which you must write a short essay for in the application. It is open to all Canadian residents, but unless you had an in to the community or stumbled upon the web page - like I did - you will never even find out about it due to virtually no advertisement. There is a very small pool of students that extensively research scholarships/grants which is a shame.

I wish education wasn't associated with being an industry tbh


2 terms:

global unconditional basic need coverage and one child policy

Switzerland and Ontario are dabbling in basic needs funding. It will be interesting to see how it pans out in both cases.

Many developed nations like my own (Canada) have low maternity rates due to the cost of raising children, and the population is otherwise increased every year with immigrants. We aren't really having any population issues, and once the baby-boom gen dies out we'll probably need to start having more kids again.

But I assume you are talking about developing nations like India whose population is increasing exponentially and whom have a lot of problems because of it. Once we get disease/poverty/hunger/proxy war under control in developing areas - I think that would be the time to impose a one child policy.



#1 Amb-ass-ador

ReimTime said:
outlawauron said:

There are always some caveats to this. Looking up rates that are charged, they seem pretty similar to what you'd see at universities in the US.

The biggest issue in making international comparisons is that education is largely legislated at state level, not national level. For instance, my state university has free tuitiion for all students who live in that state (through the TOPS program) who keep up certain GPA requirements (that are fairly easy). So, it's not like everyone in the US is completely screwed when it comes to school. There are so many scholarships, grants, and programs available to students, that many can get college for free. My wife was paid money by the state and federal government to go to school. :-/

For the rest of the post, I agree that administrators see themselves as sacred cows. No one wants to cut their own salary. Spreading out cost through hidden fees is pretty terrible, but that's how things are in most industries dependant on recurring customers (I think about rent tenants, airline customers, etc).

Really? I had no idea, that is good to hear. See the biggest thing when it comes to my area - to do with scholarships and grants that is - is that many are not even applied for and are thus wasted. There are a huge amount of scholarships and grants here too but almost nobody applies for them; it's quite sad really. A lot of them are virtually unheard of too unless you specifically look for them - which is probably why many go unclaimed annually. For instance, the Japanese-Mennonite scholarship of Canada, which you must write a short essay for in the application. It is open to all Canadian residents, but unless you had an in to the community or stumbled upon the web page - like I did - you will never even find out about it due to virtually no advertisement. There is a very small pool of students that extensively research scholarships/grants which is a shame.

I wish education wasn't associated with being an industry tbh

It varies by state. Some states have tons of assistance (that you may have to search for), others have absolutely nothing (which is where most of the horror stories come from). That compouded with those students choices in college can make it really bad. If you don't have any scholarships or grants, why the hell would you go to Boston College or NYU. That's not a good life decision.

and I understand that education isn't and shouldn't be a business, but in a lot of ways, it is. With so much money being spent and with it employing so many, it's inevitable.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

ReimTime said:
outlawauron said:

There are always some caveats to this. Looking up rates that are charged, they seem pretty similar to what you'd see at universities in the US.

The biggest issue in making international comparisons is that education is largely legislated at state level, not national level. For instance, my state university has free tuitiion for all students who live in that state (through the TOPS program) who keep up certain GPA requirements (that are fairly easy). So, it's not like everyone in the US is completely screwed when it comes to school. There are so many scholarships, grants, and programs available to students, that many can get college for free. My wife was paid money by the state and federal government to go to school. :-/

For the rest of the post, I agree that administrators see themselves as sacred cows. No one wants to cut their own salary. Spreading out cost through hidden fees is pretty terrible, but that's how things are in most industries dependant on recurring customers (I think about rent tenants, airline customers, etc).

Really? I had no idea, that is good to hear. See the biggest thing when it comes to my area - to do with scholarships and grants that is - is that many are not even applied for and are thus wasted. There are a huge amount of scholarships and grants here too but almost nobody applies for them; it's quite sad really. A lot of them are virtually unheard of too unless you specifically look for them - which is probably why many go unclaimed annually. For instance, the Japanese-Mennonite scholarship of Canada, which you must write a short essay for in the application. It is open to all Canadian residents, but unless you had an in to the community or stumbled upon the web page - like I did - you will never even find out about it due to virtually no advertisement. There is a very small pool of students that extensively research scholarships/grants which is a shame.

I wish education wasn't associated with being an industry tbh


2 terms:

global unconditional basic need coverage and one child policy

Switzerland and Ontario are dabbling in basic needs funding. It will be interesting to see how it pans out in both cases.

Many developed nations like my own (Canada) have low maternity rates due to the cost of raising children, and the population is otherwise increased every year with immigrants. We aren't really having any population issues, and once the baby-boom gen dies out we'll probably need to start having more kids again.

But I assume you are talking about developing nations like India whose population is increasing exponentially and whom have a lot of problems because of it. Once we get disease/poverty/hunger/proxy war under control in developing areas - I think that would be the time to impose a one child policy.

the one child policy is only ment for those who are living under basic need coverage only. if you're contributing to society in any way above that (aka: a job) you also should be allowed to have more children. the policy is only ment as a safety mechanism that should prevent procreation because of boredom, which imo could happen in a world where basic needs are covered unconditionally.



I agree that in real dollars we have it harder, but I'm certainly not starving. I make well over what I spend, nearly paid off my car, have my own place. I'm in IT though, and there are always positions open so I could be insulated from this economic slump.