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Forums - Politics - Bernie Sanders confuses me

Skratchy on 08 February 2016

We're the richest nation in the world. And for some reason, our people don't seem to want to invest that money into education and our health. It's kind of mind boggling.



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Nettles on 08 February 2016

If i was voting in the democratic primary i would still vote him over Clinton.Sure, he's completely insane but he does not seem to be establishment.Voted in favour of auditing the fed about a month ago.



Nettles on 08 February 2016

Federal Reserve, Reserve bank of Australia, BoE etc are not government owned.They are private central banks.



S.T.A.G.E. on 08 February 2016
Skratchy said:

We're the richest nation in the world. And for some reason, our people don't seem to want to invest that money into education and our health. It's kind of mind boggling.

We're the richest nation in the world, but we're behind in all of the major categories that matter outside of median income and GDP.



S.T.A.G.E. on 08 February 2016
AnthonyW86 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

 This. Student loan debt has surpassed credit card debt already. 

Yeah though it's mostly the interest rates that scared the crap out of me. Between 5%-7%? That's absolutely criminal. Here(the Netherlands) the interest rates you pay on student loans are lower then the rates you get on a savings account, and get adjusted on a regular basis. I used to pay about 1,2% but now that the rate on state bonds that the government have to pay are still at an all time low, and with the ECB printing money, i currently pay 0,05%. And no that's not a typo.

I am currently paying back student loans. There is jealousy on my face right now.



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Nettles on 08 February 2016
Teeqoz said:
Read up:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

Everyone pays higher tax under Sanders and yet his numbers still don't add up.

Read this : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-02/why-bernie-sanders-has-raise-taxes-middle-class



Nettles on 08 February 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
AnthonyW86 said:

Yeah though it's mostly the interest rates that scared the crap out of me. Between 5%-7%? That's absolutely criminal. Here(the Netherlands) the interest rates you pay on student loans are lower then the rates you get on a savings account, and get adjusted on a regular basis. I used to pay about 1,2% but now that the rate on state bonds that the government have to pay are still at an all time low, and with the ECB printing money, i currently pay 0,05%. And no that's not a typo.

I am currently paying back student loans. There is jealousy on my face right now.

This is interesting... If Sanders does get in and bring in free college what about all the folks who have these student loans?

Last figure i heard was 1.3 trill in student loans outstanding.How pissed off will the folks with 50k student debt be if the next students don't pay a dime? I am curious to see the outcome.



S.T.A.G.E. on 08 February 2016
Nettles said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I am currently paying back student loans. There is jealousy on my face right now.

This is interesting... If Sanders does get in and bring in free college what about all the folks who have these student loans?

Last figure i heard was 1.3 trill in student loans outstanding.How pissed off will the folks with 50k student debt be if the next students don't pay a dime? I am curious to see the outcome.

I don't know if we could have loans forgiven. That is a bubble that is increasing in size rapidly and waiting to burst.



SuperNova on 08 February 2016
hershel_layton said:
SuperNova said:
Got to love the assumption of OP that Europe is somehow this insignificant little place that has no people living in it. Germany alone has a population of roughly 84 million. If they can manage free university and healthcare on about a third of the U.S. population then the U.S. can manage it too.

Also I don't get the people being super worried about businesses profit margins honestly. Are you all somehow socialite heirs?

A business can live healthily on a modest profit margin. In Europe that's how most state owned businesses operate. They generate profit that they invest back in.
That's one of the major reasons privatisation sucked so hard around here. The private companys raised the prices and stopped investing back into infrastructure and maintenance, in order to maximize profits.
The result is bad service dangerous infrastucture (some of the old atomic plants that should have been shut down already, keep blowing through transistors, having coolingwater leaks etc). When these companys reach the point of having ruined the infrastucture beyond being able to generate mega profits anymore, they sell back to the state. Smart for the business, bad for the state and everyone else.

The end-result is the same though, the tax payer carries the cost of maintenance. Only that it would have been cheaper to continually upkeep instead of heving to pour billions in later because of negligence.

I'm not trying to say all capitalism is bad or anything like that, but capitalism has shown itself to be non-selfregulating. It needs rules to work. For starters everything that should be a human right, can't depend solely on a priciple that favours the strong and discriminates against the poor.
Schools, Universitys, Healthcare, the power and railroad networks should be state owned and run. That way you create the even playing field capitalism needs to work properly.

As for Sanders plan to invest in infrastructure, that's a proven concept. Road upkeep and building brings some of the best long term returns economically. It brings a lot of emplayment for unskilled people, giving them the chance to rise economically and socially, thus releasing more money into the markets. Plus american roads are hard to outsource to china.

Of course state owned businesses only work as long as the state isn't corrupt as fuck.
As with everything it's really about the balance between state, companies and citizens.

Never said I was right or wrong. I'm not completely knowledgeable on US economics, so I usually choose to ask questions(instead of creating an argument).

 

Also, oh my. Germany has 80 million? Europe has always been a calm place for me. I always assumed the population of Germany was at the maximum 50 million. 

Ah, sorry I wasn't trying to come off agressive here, it was late and I was sleepy when I wrote that.

Good on you for seeking information. Economics are hard to understand, but it's important to know at least the basics in order to make good decisions for your country. That's a major factor why equal access to education is so important. What Sanders is saying is actually pretty sound, for the most part, from what I can tell, big short term investments, that lead to even bigger long term returns. I get that it would probably sound like like pie in the sky talk for many though.

 

On a side note, yes, germanys population is pretty big, especially compared to it's size. France wich is roughly twice as big in landmass has only about 66mil and spain wich is also substantially bigger around 46mil. I think even sweden wich is stll bigger, is somwhere around 9 mil.

Europe might not be quite as calm as you think, between the euro crisis connected with the greece crisis and the influx of refugees, but granted, the U.S. strikes me as a pretty busy place too.



Puppyroach on 08 February 2016
hershel_layton said:

His plans for America make me skeptical- $15 minimum wage, free college, universal health care, etc etc.

I understand European countries doing so, but America? An extremely important country with 300 million civilians in it? Can Bernie's vision of a country benefit us? 

Our debt is already bad as it is. Wouldn't his goals make our debt skyrocket once again?

Well, his plans will require tax increases for everyone (and most likely a bit higher than his own estimates), a reduction of the military and taxes on speculation on Wall Street.

But in return, everyone (except for the richest in the country) will benefit economically by getting rdi of many of the private costs they have, and all costs they have for private health insurance. The reason it is a surplus for most citizens, is because health insurance companies need to cover costs for all their administration, staff and generating a profit for share holders. Centralizing administration of everyone´s health coverage will reduce costs immensely and since you have no need to create profit, you can lower costs.