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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bernie Sanders confuses me

DivinePaladin on 07 February 2016
Geralt said:
Bernie Sanders is a wack job. The only reason hes saying these things is because a majority of the people in the country are poor and hes trying to buy votes rather than solve the real problems

I look at your avatar and laugh at how accurate your post is to that rather than Sanders. 

 

With all due respect, you should educate yourself a tad. Sanders has been saying this sort of stuff for years, and he's been nothing but consistent about it. He's still the only candidate to actually reveal detailed plans for his domestic claims. His foreign policy needs work but he's currently the only candidate with the balls to throw his ideas under real scrutiny. 



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hershel_layton on 07 February 2016
Normchacho said:
hershel_layton said:

His plans for America make me skeptical- $15 minimum wage, free college, universal health care, etc etc.

 

I understand European countries doing so, but America? An extremely important country with 300 million civilians in it? Can Bernie's vision of a country benefit us? 

 

Our debt is already bad as it is. Wouldn't his goals make our debt skyrocket once again?

We already pay more per-capita for healthcare and education that pretty every other developed nation in the world. Going to a European system would likely save us money.

Never knew that. Thanks for clarifying.


I'm currently looking at Bernie with a 50/50 view. I don't know much about him, and many people claim his goals will destroy our economy. Of course, I can't look online because people lie online as well. 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton on 07 February 2016
SuperNova said:
Got to love the assumption of OP that Europe is somehow this insignificant little place that has no people living in it. Germany alone has a population of roughly 84 million. If they can manage free university and healthcare on about a third of the U.S. population then the U.S. can manage it too.

Also I don't get the people being super worried about businesses profit margins honestly. Are you all somehow socialite heirs?

A business can live healthily on a modest profit margin. In Europe that's how most state owned businesses operate. They generate profit that they invest back in.
That's one of the major reasons privatisation sucked so hard around here. The private companys raised the prices and stopped investing back into infrastructure and maintenance, in order to maximize profits.
The result is bad service dangerous infrastucture (some of the old atomic plants that should have been shut down already, keep blowing through transistors, having coolingwater leaks etc). When these companys reach the point of having ruined the infrastucture beyond being able to generate mega profits anymore, they sell back to the state. Smart for the business, bad for the state and everyone else.

The end-result is the same though, the tax payer carries the cost of maintenance. Only that it would have been cheaper to continually upkeep instead of heving to pour billions in later because of negligence.

I'm not trying to say all capitalism is bad or anything like that, but capitalism has shown itself to be non-selfregulating. It needs rules to work. For starters everything that should be a human right, can't depend solely on a priciple that favours the strong and discriminates against the poor.
Schools, Universitys, Healthcare, the power and railroad networks should be state owned and run. That way you create the even playing field capitalism needs to work properly.

As for Sanders plan to invest in infrastructure, that's a proven concept. Road upkeep and building brings some of the best long term returns economically. It brings a lot of emplayment for unskilled people, giving them the chance to rise economically and socially, thus releasing more money into the markets. Plus american roads are hard to outsource to china.

Of course state owned businesses only work as long as the state isn't corrupt as fuck.
As with everything it's really about the balance between state, companies and citizens.

Never said I was right or wrong. I'm not completely knowledgeable on US economics, so I usually choose to ask questions(instead of creating an argument).

 

Also, oh my. Germany has 80 million? Europe has always been a calm place for me. I always assumed the population of Germany was at the maximum 50 million. 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton on 07 February 2016

Oh my, economics is much more complex than I would have believed it to be.


Bernie Sanders seems to know what he's doing. A lot of people perceived him as an idiot who wants to put us all in debt.

Yikes, now I remember why I avoided economics as a kid. The complexity of it leaves my head spinning



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

slab_of_bacon on 07 February 2016
pepharytheworm said:
slab_of_bacon said:

 

Who is our debt to?

 

Besides the Federal Reserve, other countries with China owning the largest share.

 

Bond money owed to China is being paid back.  The Federal Reserve is our central bank and privately owned.  It doesn't make sense to me that a nation have to pay to increase the money supply let alone not have control over its own currency.

 



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Aielyn on 07 February 2016
slab_of_bacon said:

Bond money owed to China is being paid back.  The Federal Reserve is our central bank and privately owned.  It doesn't make sense to me that a nation have to pay to increase the money supply let alone not have control over its own currency.

 

The US Federal Reserve isn't privately owned. It's an independent government agency, kind of like the courts. And that's not unusual - Australia has a similar system with our Reserve Bank.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm



AlfredoTurkey on 08 February 2016

FDR was going to do most of these things back in the fucking 1940's!!!! It's about time we had universal health care. The fact that we don't is an out right JOKE.



AlfredoTurkey on 08 February 2016
Geralt said:
Bernie Sanders is a wack job. The only reason hes saying these things is because a majority of the people in the country are poor and hes trying to buy votes rather than solve the real problems

The fact that you don't consider poverty a "real problem" is troubling. I'd consider poor people dying because they can't get proper health care a major... fuckin'... problem. The same goes for the slave.. er.. working class. This countries problems lie in it's class divisions first. If we can get people educated, healthy and a decent wage, you will see our problems improve exponentially.



slab_of_bacon on 08 February 2016
Aielyn said:
slab_of_bacon said:

Bond money owed to China is being paid back.  The Federal Reserve is our central bank and privately owned.  It doesn't make sense to me that a nation have to pay to increase the money supply let alone not have control over its own currency.

 

The US Federal Reserve isn't privately owned. It's an independent government agency, kind of like the courts. And that's not unusual - Australia has a similar system with our Reserve Bank.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

 

Well why does the US Governement owe one of its agencies money?



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Aielyn on 08 February 2016
slab_of_bacon said:

Well why does the US Governement owe one of its agencies money?

The same way that a business can owe one of its owners money (or vice versa).

It's actually more complicated than that, but it works well as a simple answer to demonstrate that it's not as absurd as it seems.