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Forums - Politics Discussion - There is no Such Thing as "White Privilege"

PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:
SpokenTruth said:

I don't think anyone is talking about depriving a group of opportunities but rather helping those groups that need the help.

If an entire classroom of students had to take paper ball shots at a wastebasket at the front of the class, those in the front have the easiest shots (privelage).  Nobody is talking about moving thier chairs further back.  Only moving the chairs in the farthest rows a little further up.

yes, i saw that ridiculous picture already. 

yes, white people are deprived things like scholarships just for the color of their skin. at my school if you want to study physics, for example, and youre black, you get a free ride just for the color of your skin. i mean, wtf is that shit? its a bunch of racist bullshit is what it is. that isnt the equivalent of moving their chairs closer to the wastebasket, that is literally letting them bypass taking the shot altogether. people shouldnt be granted awards because of their race or gender.

To understand it, you have to step back from an individual perspective and look at it from a collective perspective.

You also fail to regonize that the "free ride", scholarship, that any black can claim, so you say, is not privelage, it's your schools attempt to help move that back row forward.  That didn't push your front row back any.  And again, don't look at the rows as individuals but as a collective.

So I shouldn't worry about individuals facing inequalities based on the color of their skin?? lol wow. Absolutely incredible that people who say this stuff are the ones trying to say that they're the ones who are not racist. It sounds incredibly racist to me. You know, I'll just repeat: part of not being a racist is not taking somebody's skin color into consideration. I think people sometimes forget this very basic but crucial point haha





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teigaga on 26 January 2016
DonFerrari said:
Puppyroach said:
DonFerrari said:

And  Sweden is accumulating a lot of debts and looking ever so more to a abyss because of it, but sure keep growing the debts and raising the taxes and you are set for success, for sure.

Except Sweden has one of the lowest debt-per-GDP in the world at something like 40%. We also had a gdp growth last year of 3,9% which is amazing considering how much turmoil we have in the world right now.

From what I know the trend is that of a growing debt.

teigaga said:
DonFerrari said:

Jews had it a lot

Whats the context? Genocide versus 150 years of slavery and social deprivation are not comparable when looking at the generational impact on american communities.

Unless the Jewish experienced a recent century of basic reading+writing abilities being trained out of them, we really shouldn't be comparing the two. Not in the context of this discussion.

Besides having 6M MURDERED? Being despised and hunt in Germany for decades before, being hunted on Spain and Portugal for centuries (perhaps other european countries as well during the middle age), being slaves on Egypt and a lot more... yes jew had it easy.

Where did anyone say they had it easy and Where are you responding to my point?

The Jewish enslavement in Egypt  pre-dates the bible. Why are we comparing that to slavery which is recent enough for children of actual slaves to still be alive today in America? It makes no sense, which is why context is key.

Equally you can't just compare different 2 atrocities and treat them as the same. A key component of recent African American history was the removal of literacy in the last 2 century's. A means of the community to nurture itself and grow. In the west the community has never had strong pockets of wealth, power and influence like the Jewish. The community also never recieved reperations, whereas the jewish did. You're comparing apples and pears.



Panama on 26 January 2016

The people that believe in white privilege, I imagine are similar to those that believe that we should run on gender and racial quotas as opposed to a meritocracy.

By that I mean it's an invisible bogeyman they use to rationalise their own shortcomings in life. I sure as shit don't have any of this 'white privilege' I keep hearing about. For those of you that do, mind sparing me some?



PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:

So I shouldn't worry about individuals facing inequalities based on the color of their skin?? lol wow. Absolutely incredible that people who say this stuff are the ones trying to say that they're the ones who are not racist. It sounds incredibly racist to me. You know, I'll just repeat: part of not being a racist is not taking somebody's skin color into consideration. I think people sometimes forget this very basic but crucial point haha

That would work to a degree except one problem.  You can't just take away race itself.  It's part of who they are.  Treating a black person as if they are white sounds logical and by itself would help a lot if more people did but it has its own problem in that you can't whitewash color. 

The best policy is to recognize and understand the race, culture, religion, sex, etc...and approach people with that perspective in mind.  It's harder work, no doubt.  But it gives equal treatment while respecting who and what they are as a person rather than trying to sweep a part of them under a rug and ignoring it. 

Racism is a negative prejudice.  Respecting their race and circumstance is not.

How does their race tell you anything about their individual circumstance? You keep making this distinction between individuals and collectives, yet you just contradicted it here by saying their race informs you of their circumstance and is something to be considered. 

Dude you're literally telling me that I have to treat people different based on their race. Not once when I interact with people do I remind myself "ok, I'm speaking to an African American male right now" and you know what, I shouldn't ever have to think about that. Part of not being a racist is not considering someone's race when you're talking to them. Treating them as an equal, not as someone who is disadvantaged or in some way handicapped. I would hate it if somebody thought they had to talk to me differently because I'm white. Those are the kind of people I'd like to stay away from. I want to be around people who treat me as an equal and don't consider my race or gender, and youre taking it upon yourself to make a declaration for the entire black community.

What if black people dont want people to keep in mind that they're black and that they have this different experience that they cannot understand? Sure im sure that there are some black people who would love it if every white person they encountered would think this way, but I bet that most of them do not. I bet most of them do not want the people they are talking with to consider their race as some sort of significant factor in how they interact with them. I believe my fellow humans want to be treated and seen as equals. 





teigaga on 26 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:
SpokenTruth said:

To understand it, you have to step back from an individual perspective and look at it from a collective perspective.

You also fail to regonize that the "free ride", scholarship, that any black can claim, so you say, is not privelage, it's your schools attempt to help move that back row forward.  That didn't push your front row back any.  And again, don't look at the rows as individuals but as a collective.

So I shouldn't worry about individuals facing inequalities based on the color of their skin?? lol wow. Absolutely incredible that people who say this stuff are the ones trying to say that they're the ones who are not racist. It sounds incredibly racist to me. You know, I'll just repeat: part of not being a racist is not taking somebody's skin color into consideration. I think people sometimes forget this very basic but crucial point haha

You should of course worry about individuals but equally communities and societies as a whole.  Govenments don't offer out minority driven scholarships simply so that sole individual can succeed, the cost probably wouldn't be worth it. They do it to encourage and enable social mobility, because thereis a real trickle down effect which benefits the community in the long run.

"Over the past 15 years black men have improved their graduation rate from 28 percent to 35 percent.....black women have improved their college completion rate from 34 percent in 1990 to 46 percent in 2005.

Graduation rates play an important role in measuring the success of affirmative action programs.."


Regarding your last point colour blindness is not necessarily intelligence, and can often stray into ignorance.





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teigaga on 26 January 2016
PerturbedKitty said:

How does their race tell you anything about their individual circumstance? You keep making this distinction between individuals and collectives, yet you just contradicted it here by saying their race informs you of their circumstance and is something to be considered. 

Dude you're literally telling me that I have to treat people different based on their race. Not once when I interact with people do I remind myself "ok, I'm speaking to an African American male right now" and you know what, I shouldn't ever have to think about that. Part of not being a racist is not considering someone's race when you're talking to them. Treating them as an equal, not as someone who is disadvantaged or in some way handicapped. I would hate it if somebody thought they had to talk to me differently because I'm white. Those are the kind of people I'd like to stay away from. I want to be around people who treat me as an equal and don't consider my race or gender, and youre taking it upon yourself to make a declaration for the entire black community.

What if black people dont want people to keep in mind that they're black and that they have this different experience that they cannot understand? Sure im sure that there are some black people who would love it if every white person they encountered would think this way, but I bet that most of them do not. I bet most of them do not want the people they are talking with to consider their race as some sort of significant factor in how they interact with them. I believe my fellow humans want to be treated and seen as equals. 

In your personal interactions, you should of course go about treating people the same unless the context suggest otherwise. You and your personal interactions =/= Govenment and institutions and their concerns of equal opportunity and social progression.




PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:

How does their race tell you anything about their individual circumstance? You keep making this distinction between individuals and collectives, yet you just contradicted it here by saying their race informs you of their circumstance and is something to be considered. 

Dude you're literally telling me that I have to treat people different based on their race. Not once when I interact with people do I remind myself "ok, I'm speaking to an African American male right now" and you know what, I shouldn't ever have to think about that. Part of not being a racist is not considering someone's race when you're talking to them. Treating them as an equal, not as someone who is disadvantaged or in some way handicapped. I would hate it if somebody thought they had to talk to me differently because I'm white. Those are the kind of people I'd like to stay away from. I want to be around people who treat me as an equal and don't consider my race or gender, and youre taking it upon yourself to make a declaration for the entire black community.

What if black people dont want people to keep in mind that they're black and that they have this different experience that they cannot understand? Sure im sure that there are some black people who would love it if every white person they encountered would think this way, but I bet that most of them do not. I bet most of them do not want the people they are talking with to consider their race as some sort of significant factor in how they interact with them. I believe my fellow humans want to be treated and seen as equals.

Let me put it another way.

Would you be ok being born black?  Or any minority?  Or a woman?  Would you be OK dealing with the extra crap they have to deal with in life?  Now if you were, how would you want people to address you and your circumstances?  Would you want them to ignore your history, your culture, your differences?  I can assure you that people do not like to have that ignored.  Does that mean your interaction between people of different races and cultures will be drastically different?  Probably not.  But there should be some subtle differences but that goes the case with all interactions anyway...even if you're not consciously aware of it.

 

What extra crap do they have to deal with again? 



PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
teigaga said:
PerturbedKitty said:

How does their race tell you anything about their individual circumstance? You keep making this distinction between individuals and collectives, yet you just contradicted it here by saying their race informs you of their circumstance and is something to be considered. 

Dude you're literally telling me that I have to treat people different based on their race. Not once when I interact with people do I remind myself "ok, I'm speaking to an African American male right now" and you know what, I shouldn't ever have to think about that. Part of not being a racist is not considering someone's race when you're talking to them. Treating them as an equal, not as someone who is disadvantaged or in some way handicapped. I would hate it if somebody thought they had to talk to me differently because I'm white. Those are the kind of people I'd like to stay away from. I want to be around people who treat me as an equal and don't consider my race or gender, and youre taking it upon yourself to make a declaration for the entire black community.

What if black people dont want people to keep in mind that they're black and that they have this different experience that they cannot understand? Sure im sure that there are some black people who would love it if every white person they encountered would think this way, but I bet that most of them do not. I bet most of them do not want the people they are talking with to consider their race as some sort of significant factor in how they interact with them. I believe my fellow humans want to be treated and seen as equals. 

In your personal interactions, you should of course go about treating people the same unless the context suggest otherwise. You and your personal interactions =/= Govenment and institutions and their concerns of equal opportunity and social progression.

I agree with the first half of your post. The second half regarding the government giving people things based solely on their demographic is something I will never agree with because I don't believe that race or gender has anything to do with merit. If you can show me a field where demographic has a significant impact on merit, then maybe I can agree for that specific example, but I'm warning you that it would require actual evidence lol. 

To put it shortly, I think people should be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Not everybody agrees with that, but to each their own I guess. 





PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
teigaga said:
PerturbedKitty said:
SpokenTruth said:

To understand it, you have to step back from an individual perspective and look at it from a collective perspective.

You also fail to regonize that the "free ride", scholarship, that any black can claim, so you say, is not privelage, it's your schools attempt to help move that back row forward.  That didn't push your front row back any.  And again, don't look at the rows as individuals but as a collective.

So I shouldn't worry about individuals facing inequalities based on the color of their skin?? lol wow. Absolutely incredible that people who say this stuff are the ones trying to say that they're the ones who are not racist. It sounds incredibly racist to me. You know, I'll just repeat: part of not being a racist is not taking somebody's skin color into consideration. I think people sometimes forget this very basic but crucial point haha

You should of course worry about individuals but equally communities and societies as a whole.  Govenments don't offer out minority driven scholarships simply so that sole individual can succeed, the cost probably wouldn't be worth it. They do it to encourage and enable social mobility, because thereis a real trickle down effect which benefits the community in the long run.

"Over the past 15 years black men have improved their graduation rate from 28 percent to 35 percent.....black women have improved their college completion rate from 34 percent in 1990 to 46 percent in 2005.

Graduation rates play an important role in measuring the success of affirmative action programs.."


Regarding your last point colour blindness is not necessarily intelligence, and can often stray into ignorance.

Man, those graduation rates are really disturbing. Im noticing that black women are so much more privileged than black men. Something needs to be done about that don't you think?





PerturbedKitty on 26 January 2016
SpokenTruth said:
PerturbedKitty said:

What extra crap do they have to deal with again?

You really don't know?

No, I don't. "The obvious truth that racial minorities and women are disadvantaged" is not sufficient evidence for me to believe that it actually exists.