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Forums - Gaming - Corporate Health of Sony, Nintendo and MS

Nintendo's debt is amazing! haha

It looks like all 3 are doing well, but our opinions are going to be shallow anyway because MS and Sony have many divisions and different business. It would be cooler to have a dedicated data for the gaming divisions of each company .



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

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KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:

Sony Total Debt:

2012 - $3.5 Billion
2013 - $2.1 Billion
2014 - $3.2 Billion
2015 - $18 Billion

Almost $15 billion seemingly out of nowhere. How?

Liabilites were just moved in the balance sheet.

Short Term Debt 53.74B 99.88B 87.89B 111.84B 1.93T
Other Current Liabilities 2.04T 2.21T 3.41T 3.6T 1.92T

Those figures are in yen, but as you can see, there's a roughly equivalent decrease in "Other Current Liabilities" to the increase in "Short Term Debt" when going from 2014 to 2015.



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
mountaindewslave said:

it is sort of funny to see how much better shape financially Nintendo is in lately than Sony despite the Wii U not going great. I guess that could be attributed to the 3DS or just very careful business from them over the years (and not dropping the Wii U price! haha)

 

obviously Microsoft is in another league compared to Nintendo/Sony but to be fair its obviously much more than a video game company and in terms of video game numbers alone would actually be beneath them

Is it?

well...

I guess it could be sorta funny to some people...

If you're into that sorta thing.

Yah know, companies filling for bankruptcy and hundreds of thousands losing their jobs...

No judgement.

 

@OP: Good Effort, 7/10

 

'funny' in the sense that Nintendo is painted as doing badly when they aren't even losing much of any money. I by no means expect Sony to go out of business, and they're clearly a much larger company anyway



Ruler said:
Revenue is more important

Sony: ¥8.215 trillion which is US$ 70 billion
Nintendo: ¥549.780 billion
Microsoft: US$ 93.58 billion

 


revenue is useless if you're working on an operating loss in the process of creating and selling your products

Sony's problem at times has been that they have spent more in R&D and production of certain products then they have made in selling them. It just really depends. there are some gigantic on paper companies out there who end up only netting a little bit of profit each year due to the slim margins (look at the fast food industry for example)



Not fair to compare Nintendo to Sony and Microsoft, since Sony and Microsoft are not pure video game companies.
Better comparison with EA, Ubisoft, Activision ect.



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Teeqoz said:

Liabilites were just moved in the balance sheet.

Short Term Debt 53.74B 99.88B 87.89B 111.84B 1.93T
Other Current Liabilities 2.04T 2.21T 3.41T 3.6T 1.92T

Those figures are in yen, but as you can see, there's a roughly equivalent decrease in "Other Current Liabilities" to the increase in "Short Term Debt" when going from 2014 to 2015.

Ah, I see. Thank you.



CosmicSex said:
Platina said:
Tagging...

What I don't really get is that if you can pay off your debts, why leave it?

Its really considered healthy to have some debt.  Have good debt as a consumer is better than not having any debt (for whatever reason but its true).

I was actually shocked.  I think they need to have more debt really.



its actually not 'healthy' to have any debt at all

its a false concept in society that having some debt is good, and the only reason for that is that it gives creditors and banks something to look at in terms of your history and reliability. if you have debt and pay it off then people consider you trustworthy. nothing more

the concept that 'debt is good' makes zero sense

especially when we're talking a company of Nintendo's size- they don't need to prove their standing or reliabliity to institutions to borrow money so the only reason to have debt at any point is a moot point for them. if anything at the point of a billion dollar company the LACK of debt is something investors and prospectors are going to find appealing, a consistent company that generally goes up and not down

granted some investors will be interested in a company that frequently borrows money because volatile companies like that can be unpredictable and have big stock swings which obviously excite the gambling sort of investor 

if the concept of having significant debt was good then Sony would not be under so much scrutiny and judgement over the last few years. its actually a scary place to be in because once you get a bit behind on it things can get out of control





poppler said:

Not fair to compare Nintendo to Sony and Microsoft, since Sony and Microsoft are not pure video game companies.
Better comparison with EA, Ubisoft, Activision ect.

 


its true, its an odd comparison. Sony and Microsoft are so involved with other branches of electronics that its like apples and oranges. if somehow we could cut off their video game divisions then it would be more comparable 

although Microsoft's video game division pushes much less revenue than the other two (way less first party software and then obviously the lack of a competing handheld in video games)



CosmicSex said:
kowenicki said:

WTF! Seriously....

It really isn't.

Revenue alone tells you nothing.



Revenue alone doesn't tell you everything but it is critically important... because without it you literally have nothing. 

Depending on what your goal is, revenue is everthing. Revenue can become profits or used as a buffer if you want to invest and grow. 

If you are budgeting for a loss and your Rev is higher then expected... BAM!

 


revenue as a stat on its own is useless though. there are tons (and I mean tons) of billion dollar companies out there with, in some cases, tens of billions of dollars of sales in revenue who profit almost nothing

obviously revenue is good in the sense of your business is potentially operating at a high scale and pushing product, but very obviously sales is all about margins and in the end whether you have high revenue or low revenue cost and profit are really what matters

sort of reminds me of the PS2 and Gamecube generation- Nintendo sold way less hardware/software than Sony during those years yet somehow managed to profit a lot more. again, revenue on its own is a useless stat without context and other numbers to look at



barneystinson69 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Several people seem to think that winning or losing in the console race is a direct indicator of corporate health and the security of that company's future.

Below is a list of a few current (end of 2015) aspects of each that company that should shed more light on exactly how successful or in danger they are.  Unfortunately, this will compare the entire companies rather than just their game segments but for the sake of a company being solvent, it's relevant.

 

Company Nintendo* Sony* Microsoft
Cash and Short Term Investments $7.6 Billion $15.7 Billion $96.5 Billion
Total Assets $11.3 Billion $132.0 Billion $176.2 Billion
Total Liabilities $1.5 Billion $107.6 Billion $96.1 Billion
Total Debt $103,000 $18 Billion $7.5 Billion


* - All figures converted from Japanese Yen to USD.

 

103,000$  debt. Nintendo really knows how to manage money.

 


haha what's crazy to think is that many individuals, like college grads, have more debt than a billion dollar company like Nintendo. pretty bizarre.