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Forums - Politics Discussion - Climate Change: What's your take?

Groundking said:

I've yet to see how the environment is becoming more hostile towards us, the warmer more CO2 rich environment lets us grow more food than ever before, ...

A warmer enviroment will also mean a drier environment. Sure your plants have plenty of CO2 to breathe but they'll also be struggling to get their necessary water.



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KLAMarine said:
thranx said:

Like i said in 20 years the same will be said of global warming.

A prediction based on nothing.

thranx said:

Have you not noticed that it has already begun. With the new term being climate change.

The term "climate change" is not at all new. Here it is being used as far back as 1953:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5DPwAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=%22Solar+Variation+as+AN+Explanation+of+Climate+Change%22&source=bl&ots=NGFCjdxs5O&sig=LHOCBCNho7ihqmABx48PHyw9i0c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiko7nNs8PKAhUPymMKHfztDx4Q6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=%22Solar%20Variation%20as%20AN%20Explanation%20of%20Climate%20Change%22&f=false

You can buy the pamphlet too:

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/SOLAR-VARIATION-EXPLANATION-CLIMATE-CHANGE-Bell/5861489741/bd

http://www.amazon.com/SOLAR-VARIATION-EXPLANATION-CLIMATE-CHANGE/dp/B00KJ1A172

thranx said:

If the science behind global warming/climate change is so sound why are the predictions so off? If they know what they are talking about, if the science is true, why can they not accuratly predict global temperature trends?

You're awfully vague: what predictions are you referring to and by whom?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=global+warming+predictions+that+did+not+happen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

take your pick from those, or show me some that have come true i'm open for that

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/rahn-the-world-did-not-end/

 

that one sums up a few

 

I dont see global travesty, i dont see coastlines reciding. OUr time to act has passed according to global warming alarmist. I still see ice on the polar caps, i dont see raised temps across the globe, i dont see heightened weather patterns or more severe storms. Find me a global warming prediciton that has happened, im all for it.



Lafiel said:
HBninjaX said:

I've been alive long enough to know that the consensus is often wrong when it comes to environmentally based existential threats to humanity: ozone depletion, overpopulation, global warming, and now climate change.

There has been no warming for close to 20 years now, despite there being more CO2s pumped into the atmosphere than ever before.

There are several factions supporting an agreed upon lie. You have a multi-trillion dollar renewable energy industry relying on this AGW alarmism fad, in addition you have left wing radicals of all stripes seeing this as a way to hamstring capitalism, then there's greedy politicians seeking power and fortune.

Bottom line: beware false prophets.

that's interesting, what is your explanation, that the 16 hottest years on record (since 1880) are all between 1998 and 2015 and that 2015 is #1, 2014 #2, 2013 #4 according to the latest NOAA report ?

is it all a conspiracy by fake scientists and greedy politicians?

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/04/noaa-fiddles-with-climate-data-to-erase-the-15-year-global-warming-hiatus/


"Newly corrected and updated global surface temperature data from NOAA’s [National Centers for Environmental Information] do not support the notion of a global warming ‘hiatus,'” wrote NOAA scientists in their study presenting newly adjusted climate data.

To increase the rate in warming, NOAA scientists put more weight on certain ocean buoy arrays, adjusted ship-based temperature readings upward, and slightly raised land-based temperatures as well. Scientists said adjusted ship-based temperature data “had the largest impact on trends for the 2000-2014 time period, accounting for 0.030°C of the 0.064°C trend difference.” They added that the “buoy offset correction contributed 0.014°C… to the difference, and the additional weight given to the buoys because of their greater accuracy contributed 0.012°C.”

NOAA says for the years 1998 to 2012, the “new analysis exhibits more than twice as much warming as the old analysis at the global scale,” at 0.086 degrees Celsius per decade compared to 0.039 degrees per decade."

Sounds like real hard science and accurate data to me. yea right. data should never have to be back adjusted like that. it looks fishy, and leaves the data up to readjustment down the line. If they can't even take and keep basic temp records what good is the "science" we base off it?



Shadow1980 said:
thranx said:


Hind sight is 20/20 and the victors write the history. Like i said in 20 years the same will be said of global warming. Have you not noticed that it has already begun. With the new term being climate change.

What "hindsight"? The majority of the actual peer-reviewed scientific literature of the time was predicting warming, which is what has happened. That's foresight. If we continue on our current path, in 20 years the global average temperature will have continued trending upwards.

And the term "climate change" is decades old. It isn't some 21st century neologism conjured up by environmentalists.

If the science behind global warming/climate change is so sound why are the predictions so off? If they know what they are talking about, if the science is true, why can they not accuratly predict global temperature trends?

Because there's no such thing as absolute certainty in science. There's always an error bar, especially when dealing with complex systems. See my reply to Locknuts from the other day in this thread. This is like harping on the Big Bang theory because some scientists back in the 30s & 40s were off by an order of magnitude in their prediction of the cosmic microwave background's temperature (George Gamow predicted 50°K; the CMB is actually about 2.73°K). While a lot of scientists were off on how warm the CMB was, the main point of the predictions was "The Big Bang should have left a microwave background afterglow" and that's what was finally discovered in 1964. Hell, there were a lot of uncertainties about how long ago the Big Bang happened (and thus how old the universe is). It still didn't make the BBT false or fraudulent, because the BBT did accurately explain a lot of other cosmological phenomena, whereas alternate cosmologies utterly failed to explain a great many things (the CMB, light element abundances, Hubble's law, and various other things).

The media, but more o politics, have made global warming science a farce. its now a business and industry and its self serving itself. Of course climate "scientist" will support it, their jobs depend on it.

There's nothing farcical about the science, and your language reeks of conspiracism. Saying "Of course climate "scientist" will support it, their jobs depend on it" is just as ridiculous as saying "Of course biologists support evolution. Their jobs depend on it," or "Of course geologists support plate tectonics. Their jobs depend on it," or "Of course physicists support quatum mechanics and relativity theory. Their jobs depend on it" or, well, you get my point. And y'know, I hear very similar claims to that from a lot of other promoters of pseudoscience and science denialism.

When we have only one agency that takes the info and it can't be trusted to give correct info it hard to take the science behind it seriously

There's more than one agency tracking temperatures. And the reason so many people don't take the science seriously is because they've chosen not to, and not because there's any reasonable doubt that the science is wrong or because there's any evidence of actual fraud and/or incompetence, but rather because the public policy implications of the science rub people's political views the wrong way.

 



what are the agencies? please link me to non NOAA temperature data. or temperature data that hasn't had to go through "adjutments". I'm all for the hard work scientist put into this, but as you said its a complex system, very complex. In fact i would say so complex with so little data (at least reliable data past 50 years out) that to make massive changes to society over incomplete data is absurd and stupid. When the science is good enought to actually predict something that happens i will take notice. Until than its incomplete, and being used to make econimc changes that arent needed. ON top of that I still see nothing on sun spt activity and solar flares and how they factor that into their adjusted and weighted temp data. I mean the sun, the source of all heat on the surface on the earth, not being factored in or talked about is pretty absurd. The sun goes through high and low activity.

 

PLease someone show me some predictions that have come through, show me the floods, show me the ice caps being gone, show me the dead oceans, show me the end of the world i keep hearing about if we dont act now, we must act now is what i have heard for 20 years. Well the earth is surviving, we are urviving, the oceans are surviving, the ice caps are surviving. Show me some concsisty among climate scientists





Al Gore is a MFer.



Lube Me Up

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thranx said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=global+warming+predictions+that+did+not+happen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

take your pick from those, or show me some that have come true i'm open for that

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/rahn-the-world-did-not-end/

that one sums up a few

Were any of these predictions published in any peer-reviewed journals?

thranx said:

I dont see global travesty, i dont see coastlines reciding. OUr time to act has passed according to global warming alarmist.

You'll be happy to know alarmism and just the same, denialism can both be disregarded safely. Neither of them are a substitute for good scientific research published in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

thranx said:

Find me a global warming prediciton that has happened, im all for it.

Here is an article published in the American Meteorological Society in September 2008: http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1 . It takes a look at a number of articles that predicted global temperatures from 1965 to 1979. Some papers predicted cooling, some were neutral, but the overwhelming number of papers predicted global warming. It seems average global temperatures are indeed steadily climbing as the NOAA attests: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature



LMU Uncle Alfred said:
Al Gore is a MFer.

I don't know about him being a "MFer" but I DO know what he isn't and that's a scientist with a publishing history in the peer-reviewed scientific journals. Last I checked, Al Gore did not have any scientific qualifications or scientific publishing history to speak of.

In other words, be wary of the things he might have to say.



KLAMarine said:
Groundking said:

I've yet to see how the environment is becoming more hostile towards us, the warmer more CO2 rich environment lets us grow more food than ever before, ...

A warmer enviroment will also mean a drier environment. Sure your plants have plenty of CO2 to breathe but they'll also be struggling to get their necessary water.

No it doesn't at all, a warmer environement leads to a wetter environment as the processes of evaporation and evapotranspiration and so on act much quicker due to the atmosphere having a greater capacity for water vapour in the air, and the warmer temperatures being able to evaporate the water quicker and more easily... Like this is basic science, how do you not know this?

KLAMarine said:
thranx said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=global+warming+predictions+that+did+not+happen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

take your pick from those, or show me some that have come true i'm open for that

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/rahn-the-world-did-not-end/

that one sums up a few

Were any of these predictions published in any peer-reviewed journals?

thranx said:

I dont see global travesty, i dont see coastlines reciding. OUr time to act has passed according to global warming alarmist.

You'll be happy to know alarmism and just the same, denialism can both be disregarded safely. Neither of them are a substitute for good scientific research published in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

thranx said:

Find me a global warming prediciton that has happened, im all for it.

Here is an article published in the American Meteorological Society in September 2008: http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1 . It takes a look at a number of articles that predicted global temperatures from 1965 to 1979. Some papers predicted cooling, some were neutral, but the overwhelming number of papers predicted global warming. It seems average global temperatures are indeed steadily climbing as the NOAA attests: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

The NOAA takes their data from the GISS, who massage and manipulate their data to get a warming trend, and have recently resorted to increasing the weighting of ship based temperatures (and if you know anything about ships, you should be able to see how this alone should bring absolutely monstrous margins for error into the data) and sea bouys, just to pause bust the data. It's all a load of shit the GISS, and unfortunately so much of the climate science education uses this crap without even explaining their methodologies and end dates used.





The science is indisputable.

 

 hit this link for more proof.

https://www.facebook.com/EvolvedMusic



If you don't believe then you have bought the propaganda feed to you by the largest polluters in the world. All the denial groups are funded by Exxon, Koch's etc... They use the same misinformation group that said smoking don't give you cancer. Sorry but you're wrong, all the science says so.

You are a Denier, the proof has already been submitted. It really comes down to denying the overwhelming Science and facts. The burden of proof is now on people who deny it to prove it wrong.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/01/14/do-97-of-scientists-really-agree-on-climate-change-nope-its-more-like-99-9-says-expert/