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Forums - Nintendo - Opinion: As earlier NX releases, as bigger are the chances it wont be what your waiting for.

Soundwave said:

 

You're acting like Nintendo has a choice. 

There is no choice. 

Nintendo cannot support a PS4 level console and a PS3/360 level portable. Sony or MS wouldn't be able to to do it either

So the only alternative then is to basically kill the console entirely and just make portables, but I doubt you're gung ho about that idea. 

But two distinct hardware platforms is over, the days where that was possible are long gone. Portable games aren't a joke anymore, they will require large teams and long dev cycles themselves going forward and the portable requires all the big gun Nintendo IP going forward too since it's the stronger seller.

Nintendo can't even keep up with the Wii U and 3DS as is. One's library suffers when they focus on the other. 

This is why Iwata started talking about unified library and iOS/Android like platform structure I feel ... they did the math 2+ years ago and realized they couldn't continue the same way forever. A share library is the only way they can have a console and portable going forward, the only alternative was basically killing the console line. 

Iwata said nothing about unified library, you're the one very talkative about that. Since you can't undestand and keep thinking nintendo can't do something they obviously can (even saying they should kill consoles instead of having a hh + hc), I'm done here.





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Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:

 

You're acting like Nintendo has a choice. 

There is no choice. 

Nintendo cannot support a PS4 level console and a PS3/360 level portable. Sony or MS wouldn't be able to to do it either

So the only alternative then is to basically kill the console entirely and just make portables, but I doubt you're gung ho about that idea. 

But two distinct hardware platforms is over, the days where that was possible are long gone. Portable games aren't a joke anymore, they will require large teams and long dev cycles themselves going forward and the portable requires all the big gun Nintendo IP going forward too since it's the stronger seller.

Nintendo can't even keep up with the Wii U and 3DS as is. One's library suffers when they focus on the other. 

This is why Iwata started talking about unified library and iOS/Android like platform structure I feel ... they did the math 2+ years ago and realized they couldn't continue the same way forever. A share library is the only way they can have a console and portable going forward, the only alternative was basically killing the console line. 

Iwata said nothing about unified library, you're the one very talkative about that. Since you can't undestand and keep thinking nintendo can't do something they obviously can (even saying they should kill consoles instead of having a hh + hc), I'm done here.



 

Why do you even like the seperate hardware model? What's so great about it? Spending $500 a generation to play Nintendo games is "fun"?

Having a situation where the guys developing Zelda U (probably the most expensive Nintendo game ever made) are going to have to be content with it only being played by a small minority of Nintendo fans is a good thing? 

I think questioning the hardware status quo is smart. The current status quo *sucks* and it's not helping Nintendo at all. 

Iwata did specifically cite iOS and Google's platform structure as something they "have to" emulate. I can buy an iPhone, iPad, iPod touch (iPhone and iPad even come in like several different variations so I can pick just the right one for my needs) and have access to the same apps. This is *smart*. This is a 2016 business model, not something trapped in 1988. 



Soundwave said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Are you seriously comparing sony first party devs with nintendo's? Look at the games nintendo made in the past years.

The next handheld won't have that level of graphical fidelity (although it will still surpass ps360).

I don't want ps4 level graphics exclusives in the next home console, I know it will be confortably above ps4 graphics at better framerates and possibly 1440p on 4k tvs. Making better looking games doesn't cost more, it's just what comes naturally with better hardware.



 

It doesn't even matter if the home console is a minor upgrade, if your portable is PS360 as you say in your post, that's pretty much the end for the old Nintendo hardware model. 

The costs/dev resources/project scope for portable games becomes much larger once you cross into the threshold of PS360 level visuals. 

That's effectively *two consoles* ... Nintendo can't even support the Wii U and 3DS as is without dissapointing people 1/2 the time, they simply cannot go any futher with natural hardware progression and be able to support it. 

It was stupid anyway ... imagine spending $200 million on a Star Wars movie and then forcing it into a type of theater where only 25% of the fans can watch it. Would you say that's a smart business model? 

This is basically what Nintendo does. 75% of their hardware base this generation will never play Splatoon or Zelda U or Xenoblade X or Bayonetta 2 or Pikmin 3 or Mario 3D World. Why? Because they didn't buy the Wii U. 

At some point I think it's smarter to stop lecturing people on what hardware they should be buying and just let them have access to the games, in other words enough with the hardware worship. All this was ever about was letting people have access to the games (where the real money is made). 

So why not have a rethink of what constitutes a hardware platform? Why are we stuck with rules that were invented for the 1980s gaming market? Which of these rules even benefits Nintendo any longer?

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.





to answer the question that this thread poses, i do think that a 2016 release wouldnt be the product we are looking for. nintendo usually takes a good while in developing these projects, and this would be a very short cycle for the proper time and care to be put into a console.
because of this, i have always been a firm believer that the wii u's successor will come out 2017 or later. i honestly would be shocked if we get a 2016 release. the last time something like that happened we got the xbox 360. although this system will be remembered as microsoft's best console, let's be honest here, it was rushed to the market and horribly, horribly built. nintendo builds really reliable hardware. that is one of their focuses and priorities. again, a 2016 release would just be... very very surprising to me.



Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:

 

It doesn't even matter if the home console is a minor upgrade, if your portable is PS360 as you say in your post, that's pretty much the end for the old Nintendo hardware model. 

The costs/dev resources/project scope for portable games becomes much larger once you cross into the threshold of PS360 level visuals. 

That's effectively *two consoles* ... Nintendo can't even support the Wii U and 3DS as is without dissapointing people 1/2 the time, they simply cannot go any futher with natural hardware progression and be able to support it. 

It was stupid anyway ... imagine spending $200 million on a Star Wars movie and then forcing it into a type of theater where only 25% of the fans can watch it. Would you say that's a smart business model? 

This is basically what Nintendo does. 75% of their hardware base this generation will never play Splatoon or Zelda U or Xenoblade X or Bayonetta 2 or Pikmin 3 or Mario 3D World. Why? Because they didn't buy the Wii U. 

At some point I think it's smarter to stop lecturing people on what hardware they should be buying and just let them have access to the games, in other words enough with the hardware worship. All this was ever about was letting people have access to the games (where the real money is made). 

So why not have a rethink of what constitutes a hardware platform? Why are we stuck with rules that were invented for the 1980s gaming market? Which of these rules even benefits Nintendo any longer?

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



 

Ya u said that multiple times without actually giving any reasons why it's not feasible or intelligent.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:

 

It doesn't even matter if the home console is a minor upgrade, if your portable is PS360 as you say in your post, that's pretty much the end for the old Nintendo hardware model. 

The costs/dev resources/project scope for portable games becomes much larger once you cross into the threshold of PS360 level visuals. 

That's effectively *two consoles* ... Nintendo can't even support the Wii U and 3DS as is without dissapointing people 1/2 the time, they simply cannot go any futher with natural hardware progression and be able to support it. 

It was stupid anyway ... imagine spending $200 million on a Star Wars movie and then forcing it into a type of theater where only 25% of the fans can watch it. Would you say that's a smart business model? 

This is basically what Nintendo does. 75% of their hardware base this generation will never play Splatoon or Zelda U or Xenoblade X or Bayonetta 2 or Pikmin 3 or Mario 3D World. Why? Because they didn't buy the Wii U. 

At some point I think it's smarter to stop lecturing people on what hardware they should be buying and just let them have access to the games, in other words enough with the hardware worship. All this was ever about was letting people have access to the games (where the real money is made). 

So why not have a rethink of what constitutes a hardware platform? Why are we stuck with rules that were invented for the 1980s gaming market? Which of these rules even benefits Nintendo any longer?

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



 

It is feasible, the next Nintendo handheld should be able to handle even the most demanding 3D Nintendo franchise -- even the epic Zelda and Xenoblade IP. 

I don't think Nintendo really even cares themselves for making high end PS4 games, they're not interested in making games with that large of a budget because if the game fails it means financial losses. They are quite happy I think making Wii U level games (hell even half their Wii U titles don't even push the Wii U as is) and then you can scale such a game up to 1080P + AA or even beyond fairly easily. 

Even on the PS4 there basically are two tiers of games: 1) a PS3/360 tier game basically that's just up-ressed to 1080P with maybe some better effects or 2) games specifically built for the PS4/X1 from the ground up, but these games are much more expensive to make. 

Nintendo can stay in that no.1 tier, nothing wrong with that. Let third parties make console high-end games if they want. 



Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:

 

It doesn't even matter if the home console is a minor upgrade, if your portable is PS360 as you say in your post, that's pretty much the end for the old Nintendo hardware model. 

The costs/dev resources/project scope for portable games becomes much larger once you cross into the threshold of PS360 level visuals. 

That's effectively *two consoles* ... Nintendo can't even support the Wii U and 3DS as is without dissapointing people 1/2 the time, they simply cannot go any futher with natural hardware progression and be able to support it. 

It was stupid anyway ... imagine spending $200 million on a Star Wars movie and then forcing it into a type of theater where only 25% of the fans can watch it. Would you say that's a smart business model? 

This is basically what Nintendo does. 75% of their hardware base this generation will never play Splatoon or Zelda U or Xenoblade X or Bayonetta 2 or Pikmin 3 or Mario 3D World. Why? Because they didn't buy the Wii U. 

At some point I think it's smarter to stop lecturing people on what hardware they should be buying and just let them have access to the games, in other words enough with the hardware worship. All this was ever about was letting people have access to the games (where the real money is made). 

So why not have a rethink of what constitutes a hardware platform? Why are we stuck with rules that were invented for the 1980s gaming market? Which of these rules even benefits Nintendo any longer?

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



you are right about this. this is why nintendo has been so successful in the handheld market. their handheld games are not copies of their console games. Zelda:ALBW fits beautifully for the 3DS.. not the Wii U. super mario maker and splatoon work wonderfully on the wii u, and you cannot emulate that experience on the handheld. it just isnt the same. 

the last company to try something like this was sony. they saw the vita as a portable ps3/ps4 and, well.. i think we can see that this isnt the correct mindset to have when developing these things. 





zorg1000 said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



 

Ya u said that multiple times without actually giving any reasons why it's not feasible or intelligent.

Yes I did. It's not feasible because making a game run on both a portable and home console isn't as expensive as making two diffrent games but does costs more and takes more time than a single game for a single system. Bigger titles like zelda would even suffer huge downgrades to run on the handheld and could turn very different because of that, not to mention the tight schedule those games currently have for a single platform. Even if it was possible to share EVERYTHING, it would still not be smart because there would be no incentive to get both hardware. Exclusives are important for that.





PerturbedKitty said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



you are right about this. this is why nintendo has been so successful in the handheld market. their handheld games are not copies of their console games. Zelda:ALBW fits beautifully for the 3DS.. not the Wii U. super mario maker and splatoon work wonderfully on the wii u, and you cannot emulate that experience on the handheld. it just isnt the same. 

the last company to try something like this was sony. they saw the vita as a portable ps3/ps4 and, well.. i think we can see that this isnt the correct mindset to have when developing these things. 



 

Nintendo's been successful in the portable market because they make damn good games period and their style of IP (cartoony kid friendly games) play very well in portable market.

Nintendo's had many dual release games/ports that have done well on portable though, starting with the very first portable Nintendo hit -- Tetris (also available on NES). 

But in the past you COULDN'T run Mario 64 on a Game Boy Color. You couldn't have Smash Brothers on a Game Boy Advance. You couldn't even have Mario Galaxy on a DS. 

Today though if you have a PS360 level portable ... that changes things significantly. That's where your analogy works for the past, but it's not relevant for the future, which is what NX needs to address. 

It's been coming anyway, each Nintendo portable has become progressively more and more "console like" and has been getting more and more of the "main Nintendo IP" each gen. This gen Smash Brothers, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, and others are no longer console exclusive. Next gen, you can bet your ass Splatoon, 3D open-world Zelda, Pikmin will likely also cross over. Pretty soon you'll be able to enjoy all the main Nintendo franchises on the handheld. 



Soundwave said:
Thunderbird77 said:

Multiple times I said it's not feasible or intelligent to share all games for HH and HC. Some games are good for that, others are not. Nintendo's software output will already be better than the 8th either way, thanks to the same architeture on future systems and HD development experience they aquired. Done here, bye.



 

It is feasible, the next Nintendo handheld should be able to handle even the most demanding 3D Nintendo franchise -- even the epic Zelda and Xenoblade IP. 

I don't think Nintendo really even cares themselves for making high end PS4 games, they're not interested in making games with that large of a budget because if the game fails it means financial losses. They are quite happy I think making Wii U level games (hell even half their Wii U titles don't even push the Wii U as is) and then you can scale such a game up to 1080P + AA or even beyond fairly easily. 

Even on the PS4 there basically are two tiers of games: 1) a PS3/360 tier game basically that's just up-ressed to 1080P with maybe some better effects or 2) games specifically built for the PS4/X1 from the ground up, but these games are much more expensive to make. 

Nintendo can stay in that no.1 tier, nothing wrong with that. Let third parties make console high-end games if they want. 

Not without huge downgrades.

You again underestimate nintendo's devs. They know how to keep budgets realistic and still make amazing looking games.