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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Ranking Star Wars: Where is VII?

I'm going to see The Force Awakens a second time soon so things might change but right now I feel it's:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones



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1. ESB
2. ANH
3. ROTJ
4.TFA







5. ROTS
6. AOTC
7.TPM



Guitarguy said:
Cruzer said:

 

Still doesn't make sense as she was a child in the flash back and Kylo had more training from both Luke and Snoke. Tge writing was poor and people need to admit that part screwed up the SW firce concept. You have to be a Jedi master or Sith lord to control minds. I'm on a SW marathon watch and all who cobtrol minds have reached that level. Luke couldn't do it til Yoda completed his training, sane with Obi after Qui-Gon said he was ready for the trials, Anakin learned after he became a Jedi knight in between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith and ge had the highest midichlorian levels since the force created him. There is not logical way to explain Rey other than the writer not knowing the history.

 


Rey being able to manipulate minds without any form of training was a travesty. Don't even get me started on Rey and Finn being able to hold their own against Kylo Ren for anything more than 2 seconds. Yeh, Kylo was wounded but let me remind you that Rey and Finn has no training whatsoever with a light saber besides Finn's 30 second duel with a storm trooper hours/days prior and Rey fending off desert creatures.

 

The force isn't something you just come into either (except according to the lore... the first jedi).

You may be force sensative and have better than average "luck" / reflexes... but you cannot harness the power until someone guides you in the direction.

Its not some power that just manifests itself in less than 24 hours...



I'm super late to the party, but here are my two cents:

 

7. Attack of the Clones

This one shares all of the problems of the prequel trilogy - wooden acting, stilted dialogue, and an excess of all things computer generated - plus it adds one of the most loveless and awkward romances in cinema history. With zero chemistry between Christensen and Portman, it's impossible to believe in or root for their relationship. 

6. Revenge of the Sith 

Sure, it's more energetic and more operatic than AOTC and TPM, but Revenge suffers from some serious issues: thin characterization, feeble acting, overproduced action set pieces, and, most disastrous of all, a main character who just isn't very engaging. McDiarmid livens up the proceedings as a deliciously evil Palpatine, but it's not enough to save what should have been the linchpin of the entire saga.

5. The Phantom Menace

Menace is a mixed bag. Jar-Jar is obnoxious. A young Anakin is annoying. Most of the characters have no personality. There are dozens of plot holes and contrivances. But there is some decent storytelling at work here, and some surprisingly effective action sequences.

4. The Force Awakens

Having seen this twice now, I might rank it as high as third. I'm no fan of J.J. Abrams, but he performed admirably as caretaker of the series. TFA brings Star Wars back to its pop entertainment origins with some spectacular action and the same mythos that made us all fall in love with the saga decades ago. The new heroes and villains are refreshing and interesting and the older characters are folded in to the mix seamlessly. The biggest problem: the script relies so heavily on hitting the beats of A New Hope that the movie often feels like more of a remake than a sequel.

3. Return of the Jedi

Jedi has a few minor problems, including a familiar plot and some overacting, but overall it's a spectacular entertainment. While director Richard Marquand doesn't capitalize on the emotional cliffhangers from The Empire Strikes Back, he does show a deft hand with some thrilling ground and space warfare. Technically and visually, it's as impessive as any movie in the saga.

2. A New Hope

Yes, Geroge Lucas owes A New Hope to many other works of art - Flash Gordon, The Hidden Fortress, and the Dam Busters, to name a few - but never before had a filmmaker combined the themes and visual markers of science fiction, samurai movies, dogfight sequences, and world mythologies so coherently (and so profitably) than in the premiere Star Wars movie. Visually inventive and emotionally resonant, Star Wars changed the landscape of American cinema forever.

1. The Empire Strikes Back

Even with all the creative energy and guidance than George Lucas gave to Star Wars, he never truly unlocked its full potential. But two other men did: Irvin Kershner and Lawrence Kasdan, who directed and co-wrote Empire respectively. What they brought to the saga was a developed sense of internal conflict and an effective appeal to the emotions of the audience. The characters in Empire aren't simply archetypes; they're living, breathing, conflicted people trying to come to terms with a world at war. The special effects on display are phenomenal, and the action scenes rousing, but the movie is great because of its character arcs: Han and Leia's growing affection; Luke's aborted training; and Vader's obsession with finding his son. 



A New Hope, Return of the Jedi, Empire Strikes Back, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, Phantom Menace.....then Force Awakens.





In all blunt honesty, while I need to see it again down the road after it's no longer fresh, my initial gut reaction walking out of the theater was "Is this the worst Star Wars movie I've ever seen?" And my initial answer was: yes.

Granted, the prequel trilogy made TOO much use of CGI, and someone else should have written/directed the romance scenes other than Lucas, as that is NOT his strong suit (obviously). But while the prequels absolutely had their flaws, to ME, at least upon one viewing, they were, collectively and individually, BETTER Star Wars films than Ep. VII was.

Don't get me wrong, Ep. VII COULD have been great. But for whatever complaints people had about Ep I-III, things that they DIDN'T do, were have constant, often out of place humor gags, constant, often pointless fan-service pandering, and a plethora of plot holes that leave you going "WHAT?"


Abrams and company tried SO hard to pander to fans of the original trilogy, that they were literally tripping over themselves trying to fit in every POSSIBLE nod, wink and reference to those movies that they could. And the plot was a blatant ripoff of Ep IV (IE the original, arguably best Star Wars). And to me, as a lifelong fan, that is unacceptable. I will not accept a plate of badly written fan service, and allow the fact that they went out of their way to tickle the fanboy clitoris of every Star Wars geek out there with non-stop self-aware references, as a "great" Star Wars film.

I'm sorry, but I honestly feel that a lot of people are blinded by the hype, blinded by the fan-service, and blinded by how much many of them claim to "hate" the prequel films. Many people have even said that they were SO excited that this WASN'T going to be the prequel movies, that they didn't even care about the blatant fan-service of glaring plot issues. And to me, that's not right. To me, PERSONALLY, while the prequels were flawed and SHOULD have been better, they didn't pander. They told the story Lucas wanted to tell, they told the story that all of us knew they were GOING to tell, which was "how did Anakin become Darth Vader, and how did the Republic become the Empire".

I have heard people complain that they "to this day have no idea what the plot was in the first two prequel films". And quite frankly? That is only possible if you're either legally brain dead, or you just weren't paying attention on purpose (IE trolling). Because whether you thought they had GOOD plots or not, those plots were pretty fucking cut and dry. And to me, someone who grew up a fan of the original trilogy AND much of the expanded universe content (at least the Old Republic and pre-Battle of Yavin type stuff), the plots of the prequel films made perfect sense, and added up just fine. Could they have been EXECUTED in acting and dialogue better? Absolutely, hence those films being flawed.

But you know what? AS a lifelong Star Wars fan, I will gladly take flawed films that at least TRIED to say something of their own, over a film whose entire existence, from start to finish, was just fan-service to make prequel trilogy fanboys happy. That isn't art, that's a contrived commercial product, which is modern Disney's calling card. I'm just glad that Abrams is NOT going to be writing or directing Ep. 8 or 9. And I then hope that they do NOT repeat the bullshit he pulled with this film, even though the initial damage is already done, and that those two films somehow manage to pick it up and be decent Star Wars films. Because to me, so far, I don't feel like I've seen a new Star Wars film yet. I feel like I sat through a 2 hour Star Wars fan media event, which was all pandering and lead-up to an actual Star Wars film, coming in 2017......

There were a handful of positives this film had. But I was just overwhelmed by the many things that left a bad taste in my mouth. I had a bad feeling that Abrams and Disney being involved was going to be a bad thing....and so far, it looks like that was justified. It just makes me sad that they try to render all of that great (and some not so great) EU content "not canon", but we're expected to take THIS as canon. I am not a fan of the Thrawn Trilogy, personally, but I honestly would rather they had directly adapted that, than what this is turning out to be so far.....



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One of the best, id say top 3 while ranking is more whats your tastes are then quality of the film.

Really enjoyed the hell out of it.



sabvre42 said:
Guitarguy said:

 


Rey being able to manipulate minds without any form of training was a travesty. Don't even get me started on Rey and Finn being able to hold their own against Kylo Ren for anything more than 2 seconds. Yeh, Kylo was wounded but let me remind you that Rey and Finn has no training whatsoever with a light saber besides Finn's 30 second duel with a storm trooper hours/days prior and Rey fending off desert creatures.

 

The force isn't something you just come into either (except according to the lore... the first jedi).

You may be force sensative and have better than average "luck" / reflexes... but you cannot harness the power until someone guides you in the direction.

Its not some power that just manifests itself in less than 24 hours...

 

Totally agreed. This was shown in Empire Strikes Back when Luke had to see Yoda to train extensively and even then he could not lift his vessel out of the swamp. It was a complete kick in the face to the lore.



1- Revenge of The Sith/ The Empire Strikes Back
3- The Force Awakens
4- A New Hope
5- Return of The Jedi
6- Attack of The Clones
7- The Phantom Menace (sometimes TPH can be six and AOTC seventh, depends of the year)



Guitarguy said:
sabvre42 said:
Guitarguy said:

 


Rey being able to manipulate minds without any form of training was a travesty. Don't even get me started on Rey and Finn being able to hold their own against Kylo Ren for anything more than 2 seconds. Yeh, Kylo was wounded but let me remind you that Rey and Finn has no training whatsoever with a light saber besides Finn's 30 second duel with a storm trooper hours/days prior and Rey fending off desert creatures.

 

The force isn't something you just come into either (except according to the lore... the first jedi).

You may be force sensative and have better than average "luck" / reflexes... but you cannot harness the power until someone guides you in the direction.

Its not some power that just manifests itself in less than 24 hours...

 

Totally agreed. This was shown in Empire Strikes Back when Luke had to see Yoda to train extensively and even then he could not lift his vessel out of the swamp. It was a complete kick in the face to the lore.

 

And this is completely open. We don't know who are Rey and Finn yet. Much of their past is obscure. With little information we have, i can't see why Rey isn't more able to control the Force than Luke ever was. And if Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin? People are searching for definitive answers on the first movie of a trilogy. Enjoy episode VII for what it is.



Why does everyone hate the prequels? Just watched them, and I LOVED them. I really liked the way they told Anakin's story and his change to the Dark Side.