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Forums - Sales Discussion - Playstation 3: An Under Rated System

marc on 04 June 2007
omgwtfbbq said:

a.l.e.x59 said:
I don't care what any of you say. You could say that the Xbox 360 could be better than the Playstation 3 in any department, except for one thing. Blu-Ray is far superior than HD-DVD. You will always get a finer picture with Blu-Ray, and that's a fact! By the way, since Sony wanted their Playstation 3 to be the best gaming console ever, why couldn't they have looked at the Xbox 360 specifications, and make sure that the Playstation 3 specifications were stronger in every single department?

I don't know where you et your "facts" from.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use the exact same codec. The picture quality is almost identical. There is much debate over which has better picture quality but there are no "facts" saying blu-ray or HD-DVD have higher picture quality.

 


I do believe you are correct. As I understand it, they do indeed use the same codec so in terms of movies, neither has any kind of advantage unless the BR uses higher bitrates. This is of course possible given the roomier discs but as far as I know, they use the same settings. So if someone does see a better picture, it is not because of the format. It is probably because of the player itself.

Oh also, back then I remember that they did look at the 360 specs but Sony had already selected the hardware they were going to use in the PS3 before the 360 specs were finalized. They also believed that their cell processors would be superior but they had a lot of trouble manufacturing them and I believe they had to scale back a bit on them. Lastly, as it turns out, the cell processor really wasnt that great of a engineering leap.

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NJ5 on 04 June 2007
marc said:
omgwtfbbq said:

a.l.e.x59 said:
I don't care what any of you say. You could say that the Xbox 360 could be better than the Playstation 3 in any department, except for one thing. Blu-Ray is far superior than HD-DVD. You will always get a finer picture with Blu-Ray, and that's a fact! By the way, since Sony wanted their Playstation 3 to be the best gaming console ever, why couldn't they have looked at the Xbox 360 specifications, and make sure that the Playstation 3 specifications were stronger in every single department?

I don't know where you et your "facts" from.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use the exact same codec. The picture quality is almost identical. There is much debate over which has better picture quality but there are no "facts" saying blu-ray or HD-DVD have higher picture quality.

 


I do believe you are correct. As I understand it, they do indeed use the same codec so in terms of movies, neither has any kind of advantage unless the BR uses higher bitrates. This is of course possible given the roomier discs but as far as I know, they use the same settings. So if someone does see a better picture, it is not because of the format. It is probably because of the player itself.

Oh also, back then I remember that they did look at the 360 specs but Sony had already selected the hardware they were going to use in the PS3 before the 360 specs were finalized. They also believed that their cell processors would be superior but they had a lot of trouble manufacturing them and I believe they had to scale back a bit on them. Lastly, as it turns out, the cell processor really wasnt that great of a engineering leap.

I think the Cell is great, I'm just not sure it's great for games programming...



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

omgwtfbbq on 04 June 2007
NJ5 said:
marc said:
omgwtfbbq said:

a.l.e.x59 said:
I don't care what any of you say. You could say that the Xbox 360 could be better than the Playstation 3 in any department, except for one thing. Blu-Ray is far superior than HD-DVD. You will always get a finer picture with Blu-Ray, and that's a fact! By the way, since Sony wanted their Playstation 3 to be the best gaming console ever, why couldn't they have looked at the Xbox 360 specifications, and make sure that the Playstation 3 specifications were stronger in every single department?

I don't know where you et your "facts" from.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use the exact same codec. The picture quality is almost identical. There is much debate over which has better picture quality but there are no "facts" saying blu-ray or HD-DVD have higher picture quality.

 


I do believe you are correct. As I understand it, they do indeed use the same codec so in terms of movies, neither has any kind of advantage unless the BR uses higher bitrates. This is of course possible given the roomier discs but as far as I know, they use the same settings. So if someone does see a better picture, it is not because of the format. It is probably because of the player itself.

Oh also, back then I remember that they did look at the 360 specs but Sony had already selected the hardware they were going to use in the PS3 before the 360 specs were finalized. They also believed that their cell processors would be superior but they had a lot of trouble manufacturing them and I believe they had to scale back a bit on them. Lastly, as it turns out, the cell processor really wasnt that great of a engineering leap.

I think the Cell is great, I'm just not sure it's great for games programming...

The Cell really is nothing special. It's an interesting idea, it's definitely new. It's basically taking the idea of a GPU and making it more general purpose.

A GPU is incredibly good at paralell processing (much better than the Cell), and will usually be doing more work at one time than the Cell. However it is incredibly specialised at one thing.

Cell is just taking that idea and making it slightly more general purpose. Which means those tasks that are "embarrasingly paralell" will work well. Because of in-order execution on the main processor and Cell being completely useless at anything not paralellisable, you'll see its performance suffer at things such as AI.

In general as things get more specialised, they get more powerful. Cell is just kind of a middle ground between a CPU and a GPU. 

 



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

NJ5 on 04 June 2007
omgwtfbbq said:
NJ5 said:
marc said:
omgwtfbbq said:

a.l.e.x59 said:
I don't care what any of you say. You could say that the Xbox 360 could be better than the Playstation 3 in any department, except for one thing. Blu-Ray is far superior than HD-DVD. You will always get a finer picture with Blu-Ray, and that's a fact! By the way, since Sony wanted their Playstation 3 to be the best gaming console ever, why couldn't they have looked at the Xbox 360 specifications, and make sure that the Playstation 3 specifications were stronger in every single department?

I don't know where you et your "facts" from.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use the exact same codec. The picture quality is almost identical. There is much debate over which has better picture quality but there are no "facts" saying blu-ray or HD-DVD have higher picture quality.

 


I do believe you are correct. As I understand it, they do indeed use the same codec so in terms of movies, neither has any kind of advantage unless the BR uses higher bitrates. This is of course possible given the roomier discs but as far as I know, they use the same settings. So if someone does see a better picture, it is not because of the format. It is probably because of the player itself.

Oh also, back then I remember that they did look at the 360 specs but Sony had already selected the hardware they were going to use in the PS3 before the 360 specs were finalized. They also believed that their cell processors would be superior but they had a lot of trouble manufacturing them and I believe they had to scale back a bit on them. Lastly, as it turns out, the cell processor really wasnt that great of a engineering leap.

I think the Cell is great, I'm just not sure it's great for games programming...

The Cell really is nothing special. It's an interesting idea, it's definitely new. It's basically taking the idea of a GPU and making it more general purpose.

A GPU is incredibly good at paralell processing (much better than the Cell), and will usually be doing more work at one time than the Cell. However it is incredibly specialised at one thing.

Cell is just taking that idea and making it slightly more general purpose. Which means those tasks that are "embarrasingly paralell" will work well. Because of in-order execution on the main processor and Cell being completely useless at anything not paralellisable, you'll see its performance suffer at things such as AI.

In general as things get more specialised, they get more powerful. Cell is just kind of a middle ground between a CPU and a GPU.

 


I wonder what's the current PPE vs SPE usage factor in current PS3 titles... I bet they use the PPE as much as they can and throw the tasks which are the easiest to program to the SPEs...

If anyone ever finds any article/interview containing comments on that, please post it here. 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

CrazzyMan on 04 June 2007
omgwtfbbq said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
CrazzyMan said:

8 month, yeah 2,5mln. comparing to ~115 mln. ps2 sold is really a lot, lol.
http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=36770&sort=0
we speak about worldwide sales, not just japan.

it`s interesting comparison, it appears that PS3 costs twice more, then ps2.

complains about price are stupid.
dvd cost 25$ and blu-ray rom 125$, for 100$ you get:
a) moovies in Full HD 1080p.
b) you get silent console, 16x DVD is really noisy.
c) you get a lot of space, all games on 1BD - comfort.

for another 100$ you get:
a) really god quality, console may work next 5 years without problems.
b) wi-fi.
c) +40GB.
d) some amazing 3rd party exclusives and japan developers support.
e) free online

you're the one who brought up Japan by comparing PS3's worldwide sales to PS2's japan only sales (which were about the same) and saying that the PS3 is selling as well as the PS2 did at launch, which is obviously false.

I don't know why you are bringing up price or what you get out of it (or, comparing 2.5mil to 115mil, which doesn't make sense. It clearly says Japan sales were 2.5 mil which are >10% of Lifetime PS2 sales in Japan). Sometimes I think you just randomly type out sentences without even thinking

You didn't actually say anything in response to the fact that the PS3 is only barely performing as well worldwide as the PS2 did in the smallest of the three big region, and in the first six months was outperformed 2.5:1 in Japan by it's predecessor. I think we can stop with the "Sony always sells slowly" myth and hopefully as well the "PS3 is tracking like the PS2" myth.

1) ps3 didn`t start worldwide too. Only in Japan + USA. No europe and other regions.
2) yeah, probably the price has nothing to do with that... =))
like 300$ vs 600$, yeah, not big deal.
Many people complain about price, but when it comes to sales, yeah, price doesn`t matter, only sold consoles matters.

 

1) really? Then what's that pile of PS3's doing at my local Myer? I guess someone transported me to USA while I wasn't looking? Oh wait, no I'm still in Australia, and last I looked, PS3's were available here. I haven't been to Europe recently but from what I heard you could buy PS3's there. Looks like PS3 has been released in all three major regions, unlike the PS2, which after 6 months was only released in Japan (but had still sold as many in a 6 month period). And since you were comparngPS2 after 6 months and PS3 after six months, then it's fair to mention that the PS2 was only available in Japan at the time.

2) Yes. Exactly. Sony priced themelves out of this generation. Price does matter and Sony will sell less consoles because they arrogantly thought people would pay any money to play the PS3. Well it's too late to go back and the PS3 is set up to fail. The PS3 will always be the most expensive console with the smallest userbase. Third party publishers don't care how much a console costs, they care how many copies of a game they are going to sell.

When you are comparing the number of sold consoles, then only the number of sold consoles matter. That was the original discussion, wasn't it? You can bring in all these reasons to justify why the PS3 is selling like crap, and of course there are reasons. But you can't seem to bring yourself to actually admit that it's selling like crap. And it is.

 

1) NO worldwide START.  It`s only 2 month, since ps3 is selling worldwide. 4 Month was selling ONLY in japan+usa. It`s fair to mention, that ps3 for 4 month was available only in japan+usa.

2) Sony with 600$ sold more consoles, then x360 with price 400$, since 6 month after each console`s launch. Even, if after 2-3 years ps3 will still cost 350$ and x360 250$, PS3 still will be a better value for money to invest in.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=37316&sort=0 

To follow PS2 success, ps3 during this year must sell + 7 mln. ps3, and in another + 18 mln.

I don`t imagine, how x360 will sell another 18 mln. in this year. Admit, that x360 is selling like a crap, and ps3 is still have chances to follow ps2 success.



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

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NJ5 on 04 June 2007
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
 
 

 

 


 

1) NO worldwide START. It`s only 2 month, since ps3 is selling worldwide. 4 Month was selling ONLY in japan+usa. It`s fair to mention, that ps3 for 4 month was available only in japan+usa.

2) Sony with 600$ sold more consoles, then x360 with price 400$, since 6 month after each console`s launch. Even, if after 2-3 years ps3 will still cost 350$ and x360 250$, PS3 still will be a better value for money to invest in.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=37316&sort=0

To follow PS2 success, ps3 during this year must sell + 7 mln. ps3, and in another + 18 mln.

I don`t imagine, how x360 will sell another 18 mln. in this year. Admit, that x360 is selling like a crap, and ps3 is still have chances to follow ps2 success.


I would like to refer you to an eye-opening graph:

http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&align=1

And never ever let the fact that the PS2 was supply-constrained (like the Wii is now) for a long time change your blind opinion...



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

CrazzyMan on 04 June 2007
NJ5 said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
 
 

 

 


 

1) NO worldwide START. It`s only 2 month, since ps3 is selling worldwide. 4 Month was selling ONLY in japan+usa. It`s fair to mention, that ps3 for 4 month was available only in japan+usa.

2) Sony with 600$ sold more consoles, then x360 with price 400$, since 6 month after each console`s launch. Even, if after 2-3 years ps3 will still cost 350$ and x360 250$, PS3 still will be a better value for money to invest in.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=37316&sort=0

To follow PS2 success, ps3 during this year must sell + 7 mln. ps3, and in another + 18 mln.

I don`t imagine, how x360 will sell another 18 mln. in this year. Admit, that x360 is selling like a crap, and ps3 is still have chances to follow ps2 success.


I would like to refer you to an eye-opening graph:

http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=Wii®1=All&cons2=PS3®2=All&cons3=X360®3=All&align=1

And never ever let the fact that the PS2 was supply-constrained (like the Wii is now) for a long time change your blind opinion...


Now, just try to see how these consoles refer to price. 200-250$ for wii, 400$ for x360 and 600$ for PS3. 600$ system is doing same as 400$ system. That means 400$ system is doing like a crap. Why you are so blind, that don`t see, that 600$ system is doing better then 400$? And that 400$ system should sell much better, then 600$, but it`s not selling better.

And Wii for 200-250$ is selling, like any console would sell for that price.

Read some stuff - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

LordTheNightKnight on 04 June 2007
CrazzyMan said:
NJ5 said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
CrazzyMan said:
omgwtfbbq said:
 
 

 

 


 

1) NO worldwide START. It`s only 2 month, since ps3 is selling worldwide. 4 Month was selling ONLY in japan+usa. It`s fair to mention, that ps3 for 4 month was available only in japan+usa.

2) Sony with 600$ sold more consoles, then x360 with price 400$, since 6 month after each console`s launch. Even, if after 2-3 years ps3 will still cost 350$ and x360 250$, PS3 still will be a better value for money to invest in.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=37316&sort=0

To follow PS2 success, ps3 during this year must sell + 7 mln. ps3, and in another + 18 mln.

I don`t imagine, how x360 will sell another 18 mln. in this year. Admit, that x360 is selling like a crap, and ps3 is still have chances to follow ps2 success.


I would like to refer you to an eye-opening graph:

http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=Wii®1=All&cons2=PS3®2=All&cons3=X360®3=All&align=1

And never ever let the fact that the PS2 was supply-constrained (like the Wii is now) for a long time change your blind opinion...


Now, just try to see how these consoles refer to price. 200-250$ for wii, 400$ for x360 and 600$ for PS3. 600$ system is doing same as 400$ system. That means 400$ system is doing like a crap. Why you are so blind, that don`t see, that 600$ system is doing better then 400$? And that 400$ system should sell much better, then 600$, but it`s not selling better.

And Wii for 200-250$ is selling, like any console would sell for that price.

Read some stuff - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand


 If you mean sales since their respective launches, there a couple extra factors.

1. The Playstation brand is a lot bigger than the Xbox brand, at least at the moment.

2. The 360 got over its supply problems more slowly than the PS3 did. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

CrazzyMan on 04 June 2007

1) who cares:

omgwtfbbq said: When you are comparing the number of sold consoles, then only the number of sold consoles matter. 

2) well, today we speak about first 6 month of each console sales, + look 1).

 



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

LordTheNightKnight on 04 June 2007
CrazzyMan said:

1) who cares:

omgwtfbbq said: When you are comparing the number of sold consoles, then only the number of sold consoles matter.

2) well, today we speak about first 6 month of each console sales, + look 1).

 


 I meant that the PS3 isn't selling out, while the 360 sold out for several months. So the 360 had fewer systems to sell in the first place. Therefore the first few months is not a good comparison.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs