| pokoko said: Publish like a tabloid, get treated like a tabloid. |
Nicely said, I would have went act like a bitch, get slapped like a bitch.



| pokoko said: Publish like a tabloid, get treated like a tabloid. |
Nicely said, I would have went act like a bitch, get slapped like a bitch.

binary solo said:
No he doesn't, https://m.ask.fm/Jimquisition/answers/129585918178 a stupid thing to say at the time, but he has clarified and I'm satisfied with his explanation as lame as he was in the first place, and as lame an excuse as it is. I hate "but it was just a joke" excuses, but if it really was a terrible attempt at sarcasm then I accept it at the same time as being very disappointed in him for what he initially said and how he said it. Anyway, unless you are legally bound to conform to a code of ethics, like lawyers or doctors, then "ethically allowed" is meaningless. And indeed I completely disagree with you on the point that either sides' actions were ethically OK. If you actually believe Kotaku was ethically OK to do what it has been said they did, then surely you would say the blacklisting is an extreme and unethical over-reaction on the parts of Ubi and Bethesda, legal, yes, ethical no. And if you think that what Kotaku is said to have done is ethically dodgy then does that mean it is ethically passable for publishers to use an inherently ethically dodgy practice in response. Blacklisting of media has a much borader context than this one case and it is a very problematic action because it has strong implications of corruption, collusion, and suppression. And it would worry me greatly if other games media swung in behind Ubi and Bethesda in supporting the blacklisting. I do note with interest that the gamezone article doesn't directly support Bethesda's and Ubisoft's actions, and it is a reasonable critique of Kotaku's action. But I think most readers are taking that Op-ed as a tacit endorsement of blacklisting as a media control tactic, and that's a concern.
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Considering I watched the event where he agreed with Adam Sessler regarding it, I reject his attempt at passing it off as 'just a joke'. It doesn't take a psychologist to read body language, and nothing about either of their demeanor at the time in any way indicated it was a joke. I don't respect the guy, and I've stopped watching his videos. We can have this discussion without bringing him up, though.
I think ethically, you can't really argue what Kotaku did, and you really can't argue what Bethesda/Ubi have done (if we're going by what's being claimed, of course). The way I see it, Kotaku released information that the publisher didn't want revealed at that point in time (it wasn't about truth, it wasn't about breaking a story, it was just click generation, we knew both of these games were coming, the official announcement just hadn't happened yet), while yes, it's dodgy, it's not unethical, but it is their right. Is it a dick move to pull on Bethesda/Ubisoft, given they may have grand reveal plans? But, unethical? Eh...not really sure I'm willing to go that far.
Likewise, Bethesda and Ubisoft, for whatever reason (we really don't know how this impacted their plans), decided it was time to end their relationship. That's fine. I don't see how that's wrong. I really don't. Furthermore, and this is just me, but I could care less about pre-launch reviews. They're simply not reliable, as whatever evironment it's being played on, is very clearly not the same environment as players would find on launch. I also don't see how this hurts anyone, but Kotaku (Which goes back to consequences of the choices you make). Kotaku's readers can either A) get the information elsewhere, or B) Wait until Kotaku's review is in place, while being assured that it's more representative of the actual experience the players will have.
You should check out the Harmful Opinions video, that one actually is closer aligned with my thoughts on the matter. I do think the media should have open and free access, but I also think the media has figured out a grey area where they can basically funciton w/o any kind of repercussions when they behave poorly, while they hide behind the guise of Free Speech. I love Free Speech, what I don't love is people who use a platform they control 100% to lie straight to millions of peoples faces, purposefully and intentionally miss-informing the populace. It's a very common practice among news agencies, these days, and I'm pretty fucking tired of it. Way, way more tired of that than I am a company blacklisting a tabloid. If games journalists, actually behaved like real journalists, pubs wouldn't have the ability to do this to any of them, because the news generally holds all the cards. It's precisely because it's a rotten cesspit, that Ubisoft and Bethesda can do something like this and many people won't really care.
mornelithe said:
Why would I watch a video of someone who supports Doxxing? His opinions are irrelevant to me, and I've already linked an article and a video that are more in line with my thoughts on the matter. Bottom line though, this isn't an ethics thing, this is about two different rights. Freedom of Speech, Kotaku's right to publish whatever they want. And Freedom of Association - Bethesda and Ubisoft's right to associate with whomever they desire. This isn't about writers sleeping with people they cover, covering ex/current roommates, or taking money from Publishers/Devs for favorable reviews. The claim here is that because Kotaku chose to reveal two titles that hadn't been announced yet, those Pubs decided not to do business with them any longer. Both actions are ethically and legally allowed. |
this; developers have no obligation or reason to automatically share private development information with these gaming news companies, especially when some of them abuse it
when a site like Kotaku is releasing leaked gaming development information from a source that likely illegally obtained it or shared it (all employees at these companies sign non disclosure agreements) then they are acting unethically
I'm tired of this nonsense where a lot of people act as if gamers deserve to know everything that's happening behind closed doors at development software companies. YOU DONT.
it's a previlage for a company like Bethesda or Ubisoft to send you early information, demos, interviews- not some sort of gurantee. there's been a lot of fishy stuff that has went on at Kotaku and when big developers as well as giant companies like SONY aren't working with Kotaku at times then that says a lot
| binary solo said: I couldn't have said it better than Jim Sterling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeL34nbEo8s Unlike most people here who fail to grasp the broader implications he takes a dim view of blacklisting. I hope Kotaku continues to do well so that publishers realise that blacklisting is not a legitimate tactic and is bad for gaming media because it turn gaming media into merely an extension of the game industry PR machine, which is ultimately bad for us the gamers. If the occasional website behaves like a dick then that's the price to be paid by keeping the gaming media and the game industry at arms length. |
sorry buddy, but when you leak stolen leaked development information you hit an extremely gray area in terms of legality. all employees at companies like Ubisoft have to sign non disclosure agreements yet somehow some of this information on developed games is getting leaked still; i.e. people are technically breaking the law
Kotaku can try to play the righteous 'here to work in favor for gamers' as much as they want but they have no power or control over whether or not leaked information will help or hurt a company
in the end its NOT their information to share when there have literally been contracts made for people not to share said information. someone else said it well on this thread, Kotaku wants to have their cake and eat it too
they think that they should be able to essentially screw over companies whenever they please with their 'news' (Tabloid/gossip in reality) site and then also think they should never have any repercussions
in the end its a free market- if you play the game (metaphorically) fairly then people will want to work with you. develops have an option of sharing early access of things or NOT sharing early access
it's not a big deal in the end if a gaming new outlet doesn't get the information because it wasn't their information that they automatically deserved in the first place
stop being big babies, all of you gamers and Kotaku. act like dicks and get treated like dicks fair and square. I think the Kotaku articles summizes it perfectly when they make the point of bragging about supposedly embarassing Sony into no longer blacklisting them. as if. how delusional and narcissitic can you get
binary solo said:
No he doesn't, https://m.ask.fm/Jimquisition/answers/129585918178 a stupid thing to say at the time, but he has clarified and I'm satisfied with his explanation as lame as he was in the first place, and as lame an excuse as it is. I hate "but it was just a joke" excuses, but if it really was a terrible attempt at sarcasm then I accept it at the same time as being very disappointed in him for what he initially said and how he said it. Anyway, unless you are legally bound to conform to a code of ethics, like lawyers or doctors, then "ethically allowed" is meaningless. And indeed I completely disagree with you on the point that either sides' actions were ethically OK. If you actually believe Kotaku was ethically OK to do what it has been said they did, then surely you would say the blacklisting is an extreme and unethical over-reaction on the parts of Ubi and Bethesda, legal, yes, ethical no. And if you think that what Kotaku is said to have done is ethically dodgy then does that mean it is ethically passable for publishers to use an inherently ethically dodgy practice in response. Blacklisting of media has a much borader context than this one case and it is a very problematic action because it has strong implications of corruption, collusion, and suppression. And it would worry me greatly if other games media swung in behind Ubi and Bethesda in supporting the blacklisting. I do note with interest that the gamezone article doesn't directly support Bethesda's and Ubisoft's actions, and it is a reasonable critique of Kotaku's action. But I think most readers are taking that Op-ed as a tacit endorsement of blacklisting as a media control tactic, and that's a concern.
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Btw, if this WERE an issue where Kotaku had researched and investigated both companies, and reported on poor working conditions, or something like that, and they'd been blacklisted because of that, I'd absolutely be on Kotaku's side on this one. However, as far as we know, that isn't the case here. It's true, my disdain for sites like Kotaku is pretty clear, but it'd be absolutely hypocritical if I ignored my principles because of that hate.