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Forums - General Discussion - What do you think you have to do to get to Heaven?

Kasz216 on 25 March 2008
Andir said:
Tavin said:
he made lots of magic tricks and they still didn't believe in him.

There... fixed it for you.

Now as far as the debate. It is stupid. None of us can prove any of our stories. So why then must people continue to try to push their ideas on each other? You want to feel included, and that you are right. We are all arrogant sons of bitches and in doing so we are all committing sins under religion's own teachings. Arrogance is a sin. Look it up. We are all going to hell. End of story.

You think the Buddhist monks high up in the hills minding their own business realize this while we tear each other down? I think the Bible did give them something. It gave them the truth of humanity. We are all egotistical, arrogant, and dominating. We push our ideas on others as if they are right, and everything else is wrong. We want to make sure that we believe what we are saying and we seek out the current form of media to try to prove it. Scrolls, printed text, the Internet.... Why? That's what works. Natural selection defined that. Only those adapted to manipulate others have come to power. Power begets power and people seek it out to prove that they are right in their own mind. Religions use the Bible, printed history, and interpretation. Others use science, reasoning, and theory.

Simply arguing that we are right makes all of us arrogant. We have no sound proof, no verifiable sources (but the tainted words minced by men over thousands of years to read in the way in which they wanted in both science and the Bible) and no way to resolve this. So what do you do?

?


 I don't know.  Let's put it this way.  Lets say you had a really strong feeling that if someone ate a cheeseburger for lunch today he would die by choking to death.

If he doesn't eat the cheeseburger, you feel better, he hasn't choked to death.  You don't know if he would have but at least he didn't.

Now lets say you warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anwyay.  You feel bad.  But at least you tried.  So you feel less guilty.

Now lets say you don't warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anyway.  He's dead... and you feel like a dick for not going with your instincts.

That's pretty much why many christians argue about religion as such.  

Either they convince and convert someone, and either they go to heaven, or just die like the would as non christians.

Don't but try, and can be a little consoled that they tried to save said person from Hell. 

Or feel like a jerk that they didn't do anything, even though they knew for a fact they were headed for eternal torment.



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kenzomatic on 25 March 2008
Kasz216 said:

 I don't know.  Let's put it this way.  Lets say you had a really strong feeling that if someone ate a cheeseburger for lunch today he would die by choking to death.

If he doesn't eat the cheeseburger, you feel better, he hasn't choked to death.  You don't know if he would have but at least he didn't.

Now lets say you warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anwyay.  You feel bad.  But at least you tried.  So you feel less guilty.

Now lets say you don't warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anyway.  He's dead... and you feel like a dick for not going with your instincts.

That's pretty much why many christians argue about religion as such.  

Either they convince and convert someone, and either they go to heaven, or just die like the would as non christians.

Don't but try, and can be a little consoled that they tried to save said person from Hell. 

Or feel like a jerk that they didn't do anything, even though they knew for a fact they were headed for eternal torment.


That is the greatest explination ever!!!!!

You get like thousand cool points for that and I only usually hand out in increments of 10.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.

ioi + 1
Kasz216 on 25 March 2008
totalwar23 said:
ikilledkenny said:
To go to heaven, you must be a kind and generous person, and strive to do good.


Not according to kazadoom, you have to believe in Christianity, otherwise it's not enough.

This really has me thinking. What about the status of the Meso Americans, Native Americans, Africans, Asians, and all of the people who did not get the message about Jesus and God throughout history. The word of God didn't reach them so they went through life not believing in Christianity. So, what, they all went to hell for not believing in something they didn't know in the first place?


Actually according to most christian churches, I believe those who never heard the word of god get a free pass so to speak. Just like everyone who died before Jesus died for peoples sins.

It's only the knowingly turning your back on god after hearing the truth thing that's seen as bad. Which really makes you wonder why the expansion of christianity was so important.

I mean if some guy came to me and said "Hey all! You can all be saved and have eternal happieness... and would have been had I not bothered to come here and start this speech!"

I'd kidna want to punch him in the nose.



cdude1034 on 25 March 2008

The more people share your beliefs, the more power you, in turn, hold. This is the benefit of converting people.

See: The Catholic Church from 200 AD - around 1700 AD, see also, The Crusades. A lot of people believed in the christian religion...so many in fact that the church was able to raise an army...



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Andir on 25 March 2008
Tavin said:
I don't want to get into an argument with you Vagabond, i don't wan to get into a Doctrine conversation 'cause there's no point in it with you, yeah .. i guide myself through my heart ... because i feel what is right ... and what is true by a power far superior than mine and that not only comes from my heart ... but from my mind too ... from all the knowledge i've got ( I'm a scientist )...

"Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground"

I guide myself with my heart 'cause the feeling in there comes from someone superior to me and also because i have pondered that feeling in my mind, and also i don't depend on the Bible to say that Jesuschrist existed ... and that he is my saviour ...

 And that makes you a bad Scientist.  Like it or not.  Good Scientists study things with an open mind.  Not feelings.  They question everything and seek knowledge.  Who, what, were, why?  Not, "My one source says it's true. It must be."



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Andir on 25 March 2008
kenzomatic said:
Kasz216 said:

 I don't know.  Let's put it this way.  Lets say you had a really strong feeling that if someone ate a cheeseburger for lunch today he would die by choking to death.

If he doesn't eat the cheeseburger, you feel better, he hasn't choked to death.  You don't know if he would have but at least he didn't.

Now lets say you warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anwyay.  You feel bad.  But at least you tried.  So you feel less guilty.

Now lets say you don't warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anyway.  He's dead... and you feel like a dick for not going with your instincts.

That's pretty much why many christians argue about religion as such.  

Either they convince and convert someone, and either they go to heaven, or just die like the would as non christians.

Don't but try, and can be a little consoled that they tried to save said person from Hell. 

Or feel like a jerk that they didn't do anything, even though they knew for a fact they were headed for eternal torment.


That is the greatest explination ever!!!!!

You get like thousand cool points for that and I only usually hand out in increments of 10.


So, it's like being that annoying guy who will walk around to every table in a restaurant and warn everyone in the room that they might choke on a cheeseburger so they feel better if any one of them chokes?  You better get started warning people then.  It's going to be a LONG road to be able to talk to the billions of people in this world and warn them about cheeseburgers.

That's a horrible analogy.   For one, it's based on something tangible.  You can see and hear someone choking.  You base this on experience from the past.  You can't see and hear someone going to heaven.  If you could, you could record it on video and post it on youtube for everyone else to see and hear.

Also, I've been hearing a lot of evidence that religion (organized and personal) is driven by guilt and fear more than happiness and love.  Not a very healthy outlook on life or your so called greater being.  I don't know about you, but I hate being a slave, or a pet who is afraid of getting smacked down by his master for barking or running off.  Also, you're pointing out that it's based on feeling, which again... If you've ever been around women can be completely uncomprehensible.  (...and I don't mean that as an attack toward women, but the fact is, the sexes have a hard time understanding each other because of "feelings")



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Andir on 25 March 2008
Kasz216 said:
totalwar23 said:
ikilledkenny said:
To go to heaven, you must be a kind and generous person, and strive to do good.


Not according to kazadoom, you have to believe in Christianity, otherwise it's not enough.

This really has me thinking. What about the status of the Meso Americans, Native Americans, Africans, Asians, and all of the people who did not get the message about Jesus and God throughout history. The word of God didn't reach them so they went through life not believing in Christianity. So, what, they all went to hell for not believing in something they didn't know in the first place?


Actually according to most christian churches, I believe those who never heard the word of god get a free pass so to speak. Just like everyone who died before Jesus died for peoples sins.

It's only the knowingly turning your back on god after hearing the truth thing that's seen as bad. Which really makes you wonder why the expansion of christianity was so important.

I mean if some guy came to me and said "Hey all! You can all be saved and have eternal happieness... and would have been had I not bothered to come here and start this speech!"

I'd kidna want to punch him in the nose.


cdude1034 said:
The more people share your beliefs, the more power you, in turn, hold. This is the benefit of converting people.

See: The Catholic Church from 200 AD - around 1700 AD, see also, The Crusades. A lot of people believed in the christian religion...so many in fact that the church was able to raise an army...

 ----------------------

And that's why it only makes sense as a power pull.  If the church itself states that not knowing is a free pass, then there's really no purpose, need, or desire to push others into going to church.  It's hypocritical bullshit to try to control as many people as they can.  The churches have been in control of the Bible and they could translate and steer it any way they wanted to over the thousands of years it's been around.  Then we have people here quoting it like it's the one true source for all information without doubt.



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Final-Fan on 25 March 2008
kenzomatic said:
Final-Fan said:
Tavin said:
I guide myself with my heart 'cause the feeling in there comes from someone superior to me and also because i have pondered that feeling in my mind, and also i don't depend on the Bible to say that Jesuschrist existed ... and that he is my saviour ...
ORLY? Why do you believe that then, because I'm pretty sure that the only place you'd get that idea from is either the Bible or people who are going off of what the Bible says. Well, except for the "existed" part.
Why do you beleive any of this is real maybe your the only one who exists and everything else is an illusion?
Because all my senses tell me otherwise.  That's such a bad analogy I almost can't believe you tried it. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 25 March 2008
Andir said:
kenzomatic said:
Kasz216 said:
I don't know. Let's put it this way. Lets say you had a really strong feeling that if someone ate a cheeseburger for lunch today he would die by choking to death.

If he doesn't eat the cheeseburger, you feel better, he hasn't choked to death. You don't know if he would have but at least he didn't.

Now lets say you warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anwyay. You feel bad. But at least you tried. So you feel less guilty.

Now lets say you don't warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anyway. He's dead... and you feel like a dick for not going with your instincts.

That's pretty much why many christians argue about religion as such.

Either they convince and convert someone, and either they go to heaven, or just die like the would as non christians.

Don't but try, and can be a little consoled that they tried to save said person from Hell.

Or feel like a jerk that they didn't do anything, even though they knew for a fact they were headed for eternal torment.
That is the greatest explination ever!!!!!

You get like thousand cool points for that and I only usually hand out in increments of 10.
So, it's like being that annoying guy who will walk around to every table in a restaurant and warn everyone in the room that they might choke on a cheeseburger so they feel better if any one of them chokes? You better get started warning people then. It's going to be a LONG road to be able to talk to the billions of people in this world and warn them about cheeseburgers.

That's a horrible analogy. For one, it's based on something tangible. You can see and hear someone choking. You base this on experience from the past. You can't see and hear someone going to heaven. If you could, you could record it on video and post it on youtube for everyone else to see and hear.

Also, I've been hearing a lot of evidence that religion (organized and personal) is driven by guilt and fear more than happiness and love. Not a very healthy outlook on life or your so called greater being. I don't know about you, but I hate being a slave, or a pet who is afraid of getting smacked down by his master for barking or running off. Also, you're pointing out that it's based on feeling, which again... If you've ever been around women can be completely uncomprehensible. (...and I don't mean that as an attack toward women, but the fact is, the sexes have a hard time understanding each other because of "feelings")
Well, but the guy is basing his actions off of a gut feeling instead of seeing/hearing people choke on cheeseburgers, so I think the analogy is OK ... it's just the behavior that's questionable. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Andir on 25 March 2008
Final-Fan said:
Andir said:
kenzomatic said:
Kasz216 said:
I don't know. Let's put it this way. Lets say you had a really strong feeling that if someone ate a cheeseburger for lunch today he would die by choking to death.

If he doesn't eat the cheeseburger, you feel better, he hasn't choked to death. You don't know if he would have but at least he didn't.

Now lets say you warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anwyay. You feel bad. But at least you tried. So you feel less guilty.

Now lets say you don't warn him, and he eats the cheezeburger anyway. He's dead... and you feel like a dick for not going with your instincts.

That's pretty much why many christians argue about religion as such.

Either they convince and convert someone, and either they go to heaven, or just die like the would as non christians.

Don't but try, and can be a little consoled that they tried to save said person from Hell.

Or feel like a jerk that they didn't do anything, even though they knew for a fact they were headed for eternal torment.
That is the greatest explination ever!!!!!

You get like thousand cool points for that and I only usually hand out in increments of 10.
So, it's like being that annoying guy who will walk around to every table in a restaurant and warn everyone in the room that they might choke on a cheeseburger so they feel better if any one of them chokes? You better get started warning people then. It's going to be a LONG road to be able to talk to the billions of people in this world and warn them about cheeseburgers.

That's a horrible analogy. For one, it's based on something tangible. You can see and hear someone choking. You base this on experience from the past. You can't see and hear someone going to heaven. If you could, you could record it on video and post it on youtube for everyone else to see and hear.

Also, I've been hearing a lot of evidence that religion (organized and personal) is driven by guilt and fear more than happiness and love. Not a very healthy outlook on life or your so called greater being. I don't know about you, but I hate being a slave, or a pet who is afraid of getting smacked down by his master for barking or running off. Also, you're pointing out that it's based on feeling, which again... If you've ever been around women can be completely uncomprehensible. (...and I don't mean that as an attack toward women, but the fact is, the sexes have a hard time understanding each other because of "feelings")
Well, but the guy is basing his actions off of a gut feeling instead of seeing/hearing people choke on cheeseburgers, so I think the analogy is OK ... it's just the behavior that's questionable. 

The gut feeling is based on experience.  He's been around when someone (or himself) choked on something before.

 



It seems the mods need help with this forum.  I have zero tolerance for trolling, platform criticism (Rule 4), and poster bad-mouthing (Rule 3.4) and you will be reported.

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