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Forums - General Discussion - What do you think you have to do to get to Heaven?

tuoyo said:
rocketpig said:
Paul said:
@ kenzomatic

I don't find that offensive at all. I find the fact that kazadoom thinks the bible is the litteral truth is offensive to my sanity.

I have no problem with people who believe whatever they like. It's their right. What I do have a problem with is people pushing faith-based belief on others and presenting it as fact when all scientific evidence bitterly disagrees with the idea.


Ah but if you experience something very good won't you want to share that with others.  And if you know that since you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Saviour you have received many blessings won't you want others to receive him so they can receive their blessings.  And If you know Jesus is the way to heaven won't you want to bring others to Jesus so they can get to heaven.  And the bible commands it of us.


 I have no problem with people choosing to take it upon themselves to preach their faith.  That is certainly their right, as long as they leave me alone if I request it of them.  I have a problem, however, with people choosing to get around parents by preaching directly to their children when the parents are not around and attempting to push their beliefs into schools.

So, by all means preach your faith within the bounds of proper common discourse, without taking it to the point of harassment, but do not use government agencies to do it for you.  So, when people of a religion come up with their own idea of how the earth was created but not a single shred of their evidence stands up to peer review then you need to keep that belief where it belongs, in the church, not in schools.



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kazadoom said:
bluesinG said:
kazadoom said:
bluesinG -

Here is an easy read about Ahaziah that really explains it in more detail. You can skim down to the explanation that makes perfect since.

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/scripture/ahaziah-contradiction.pdf

Still nope.

The interpretation offered by the document you are now citing contradicts your previous interpretation. Previously, you argued that Ahaziah was "made king" at the age of 22 years-from-birth but not "confirmed king" until the age of 42 years-from-birth. I offered quotes from 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles to illustrate how that interpretation was not possible.

The new document states that, in both 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles, Ahaziah was made and confirmed king at the age of 22 years-from-birth. Before I address this new interpretation, are you now admitting that your original interpretation was incorrect, and that Ahaziah was made and confirmed king at the age of 22 years-from-birth?

no, I did not offer the second as a new interpretation, but another one.  Both of them could be right.  I never said that Ahaziah became king right after his father died and there is nothing that says that he had to.  There were many times that Israel went without a King for a time.  Therefore he could have been confirmed King 12 years after his father's death. I am fine with either because to me both make sense.  I have a preconceived notion that the Bible is true and you have one that the Bible is false.  Therefore it does not matter what you say or what I say for I do not care what you opinion is neither do you care what mine is.  I see no need to continue this.  You can believe what you like and try to keep proving the Bible to be wrong, but in the end you will find out sadly that you were the one that was wrong when you stand begore the God of the Bible.

 


I very much see a point to continuing this. You asked for one example of a concrete contradiction in the Bible, I've worked to present one, and we should see it through.

You have presented two interpretations of the Ahaziah issue:

The first (from the 1599 Geneva Bible) assumes that Ahaziah was "made king" (in 2 Kings) at the age of 22 years-from-birth but not "confirmed king" (in 2 Chronicles) until the age of 42 years-from-birth.

The second (from letgodbetrue.com) assumes that Ahaziah was both made and confirmed king at the age of 22-years-from-birth, and that the age of 42 years stated in 2 Chronicles was not Ahaziah's age-from-birth.

These two interpretations cannot both be correct, because Ahaziah could not have been both 22 years-from birth when confirmed king and 42 years-from-birth when confirmed king. So which is it? Was Ahaziah 22 years-from-birth or 42-years-from-birth when he was confirmed king?



tuoyo said:
rocketpig said:
Paul said:
@ kenzomatic

I don't find that offensive at all. I find the fact that kazadoom thinks the bible is the litteral truth is offensive to my sanity.

I have no problem with people who believe whatever they like. It's their right. What I do have a problem with is people pushing faith-based belief on others and presenting it as fact when all scientific evidence bitterly disagrees with the idea.


Ah but if you experience something very good won't you want to share that with others.  And if you know that since you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Saviour you have received many blessings won't you want others to receive him so they can receive their blessings.  And If you know Jesus is the way to heaven won't you want to bring others to Jesus so they can get to heaven.  And the bible commands it of us.

Actually, I have no problem with people of faith spreading the word in what they believe in. There's absolutely nothing wrong with believing in religion, it just doesn't suit me personally. I can understand why some people would want to spread their faith in God to others.

My problem lies in Creationism and the Christians who try to push it into classrooms and onto children. Religion has absolutely zero right to push faith-based theories about the world, its creation, animals, etc. on to people. If someone believes it, great. Good for them. But don't try to push science out of the way in favor of some half-baked theories written in a book over 2,000 years ago. That's when I get pissed off. It's arrogant, narrow-minded, and completely violates the separation of church and state.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

eeeshh, Profcrab. Sounds like you have a story behind your last post. Care to tell it? I don't think that schools will allow preaching to the kids to begin with, so....



luinil said:
eeeshh, Profcrab. Sounds like you have a story behind your last post. Care to tell it? I don't think that schools will allow preaching to the kids to begin with, so....

 I have a big problem with Intelligent Design being pushed into schools and Evolution being trashed by people that are trying to push faith into schools through the back door.



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Well I can see it both ways. I can see the reasons for both being taught as well. But I don't know if evolution can ever be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened. There are too many inconsistencies within that theory for me to believe it. I don't know if it happened or not, God is not above using stranger methods to accomplish his goals.



luinil said:
Well I can see it both ways. I can see the reasons for both being taught as well. But I don't know if evolution can ever be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened. There are too many inconsistencies within that theory for me to believe it. I don't know if it happened or not, God is not above using stranger methods to accomplish his goals.

The big problem lies in the fact that science is simply the quest for knowledge, nothing more. It's constantly changing and improving as the human race learns more and more about itself and the world.

Creationism, on the other hand, is not rooted in one bit of factual data (and don't even go down that road with me, I've taken too many science classes and don't buy into a bit of it) and is based on peoples' personal belief system. That's fine for the individual, bad for the group.

Besides, how fair is it to teach Creationism to a Muslim child? How fair is it to teach the Protestant version of Creationism to a Catholic? There are so many reasons why church should stay out of public schools that it's not even funny. 




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

rocketpig said:
luinil said:
Well I can see it both ways. I can see the reasons for both being taught as well. But I don't know if evolution can ever be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened. There are too many inconsistencies within that theory for me to believe it. I don't know if it happened or not, God is not above using stranger methods to accomplish his goals.

The big problem lies in the fact that science is simply the quest for knowledge, nothing more. It's constantly changing and improving as the human race learns more and more about itself and the world.

Creationism, on the other hand, is not rooted in one bit of factual data (and don't even go down that road with me, I've taken too many science classes and don't buy into a bit of it) and is based on peoples' personal belief system. That's fine for the individual, bad for the group.

Besides, how fair is it to teach Creationism to a Muslim child? How fair is it to teach the Protestant version of Creationism to a Catholic? There are so many reasons why church should stay out of public schools that it's not even funny. 


It would all be fine in a history of relgions class. Which I think would be a welcome addition to public education.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.


ioi + 1

I wasn't advocating putting it in the school. I simply said that I could see it either way. I also stated my reasons for not believing it, but never said that it shouldn't be taught in public schools. It is science, though very incomplete. I will admit that Creationism is based in faith and faith alone. Without a Creator, whom one must have faith in, there can be no creation.



kenzomatic said:
rocketpig said:
luinil said:
Well I can see it both ways. I can see the reasons for both being taught as well. But I don't know if evolution can ever be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened. There are too many inconsistencies within that theory for me to believe it. I don't know if it happened or not, God is not above using stranger methods to accomplish his goals.

The big problem lies in the fact that science is simply the quest for knowledge, nothing more. It's constantly changing and improving as the human race learns more and more about itself and the world.

Creationism, on the other hand, is not rooted in one bit of factual data (and don't even go down that road with me, I've taken too many science classes and don't buy into a bit of it) and is based on peoples' personal belief system. That's fine for the individual, bad for the group.

Besides, how fair is it to teach Creationism to a Muslim child? How fair is it to teach the Protestant version of Creationism to a Catholic? There are so many reasons why church should stay out of public schools that it's not even funny. 


It would all be fine in a history of relgions class. Which I think would be a welcome addition to public education.


Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with teaching people about religion in public schools, it's just wrong to teach them to believe in religion.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/