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Forums - Gaming - Canadian Prime Minister: 'we need to fight GamerGate and videogame misogyny'

 

Agree with the Canadian Prime Minister?

Yes 37 16.59%
 
No 138 61.88%
 
I couldn't care less 47 21.08%
 
Total:222
Tachikoma said:

For me i am less worried about so called SJW effect on games, because frankly if games are shit they wont sell, and if they dont sell they either change back to what does sell or the publisher dissappears.

I am more worried however about the dangerous model of dealing with the situation people are setting.
As it stands if you so much as question a woman or feminists rhetoric on twitter you are labeled a mysoginist, gamergater or outright terrorist, what the model and response structure does is allow heavy manipulation of the public by squashing any questioning of rhetoric in a whitewash of labels

If a woman or feminist, or even just someone who upholds SJW ideals finds issue with someone, this structure is systematically abused to turn the media and thus, public opinion against the person they find issue with, this has been demonstrated multiple times over the past year and seems to be only growing in frequency.

Freedom of expression and free speech are playing second fiddle to political correctness gone crazy, and the manipulation of those both in control of, and on the side of, the media.

Amazing post.

And the worst is that it's completely befuddling why they hold so much power, less than 20% of women consider themself femminist in the US, and yet 3rd wave radfems loonies hold so much power over our way of life and what's acceptable or not that you'll think eveyone is a femminist.

They're pretty much the christian fundamentalist of today.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Surely there's more important things he should be thinking about after being elected? Or is Canada really a utopia that has no other problems whatsoever?


Well if you look at the date, that article was a month before the election. This is the first thing he is focusing on 

http://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/10/21/electoral-reform-looms-for-canada-trudeau-promises.html

and 

http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/10/22/swift-action-for-refugees-urged-as-trudeaus-promised-deadline-looms.html

and finally his biggest decision

picking finance and environment ministers, namely since the election everyone was really disheartened by the previous finance minister. 

He also most likely within the six month have to address bill C-26 and take that out. 



 

Ka-pi96 said:
Acevil said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Surely there's more important things he should be thinking about after being elected? Or is Canada really a utopia that has no other problems whatsoever?


Well if you look at the date, that article was a month before the election. This is the first thing he is focusing on 

http://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/10/21/electoral-reform-looms-for-canada-trudeau-promises.html

and 

http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2015/10/22/swift-action-for-refugees-urged-as-trudeaus-promised-deadline-looms.html

and finally his biggest decision

picking finance and environment ministers, namely since the election everyone was really disheartened by the previous finance minister. 

He also most likely within the six month have to address bill C-26 and take that out. 

Wait, so are you saying the line 'when the Prime Minister was asked' is basically a lie since he wasn't even prime minister when he was asked this?


Yes, that was added by the op. 



 

Tachikoma said:
Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

Fighting GG does not give developers freedom, it empowers those "offended" by elements of games to prevent developers from putting in the content they want, which is the exact opposite of what you say you want.

The way I saw GG when i followed it, was that critics of sexism in video games themselves became victims of sexism and harassment from gamers around the world. That has nothing to do with the freedom a developer has in making games. Having freedom to do something does not mean that you should be immune to critisicim. It´s a whole other thing if the industry is regulated by the government. So ofcourse I can oppose GG while standing for developer freedom.



Puppyroach said:

The way I saw GG when i followed it, was that critics of sexism in video games themselves became victims of sexism and harassment from gamers around the world. That has nothing to do with the freedom a developer has in making games. Having freedom to do something does not mean that you should be immune to critisicim. It´s a whole other thing if the industry is regulated by the government. So ofcourse I can oppose GG while standing for developer freedom.

It's a very narrow way of looking at it, but I'm not going to argue the toss with you.

I can say however, that as a direct result of the attacks against GG and the constant whitewashing in the media, many, many developers have been negatively impacted, not by gamergaters, but by those apposing them.

@bold: when that criticism is handled the way it currently is by the media and "critics", there is no freedom, none what so ever, it isn't a case of "its just criticism, it doesnt harm anything" because that kinda goes out the window when people are actively being fired from their jobs, going out of business or being forced to change portions of their game for people who dont even intend to play it.

And what did these people do to deserve for losing their jobs, going out of business, or being forced to change their own game, sexually harras someone?, hurt someone? rape someone?, no, they simply questioned the criticism given.

Nobody should be immune to criticism, but at the same time, criticism shouldn't be immune to criticism either, with the way things currently are, criticising the critics gets you labeled mysoginistic, woman hating or gamergater.



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SuperNova said:
Lawlight said:
Conegamer said:

Well for starts I don't think anyone, regardless of their gender, sex, ethnicity etc. should be attacked or abused because of who they are. So quite simply a little respect is all that really matters at the end of the day. There's no point attacking someone just because they're different to you if you ask me! 

 

Though ofcourse the whole connection to videogames is a non issue anyway for the most part. But that's not this topic IMO. 

How is that specifically related to women? This applies to anyone.

What he said are basically the core values of feminism. If you think that applies to everyone than you think feminism applies to everyone. Feminism, despite it's somewhat misleading name, is not about women per se. It's about equality. For erveryone. Regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation or race.

Feminism aknowleges mysogynoism juat as much as misandrism and labels both as wrong. Sadly this is often misunderstood by supporters and detractors of feminism alike. There's nothing more annoying than self-appointed feminists spouting misandrist babble.

The thing is, 'we need to fight misogyny' in just about any context should not be a controversial standpoint. It should be a no-brainer. Just as much as 'we need to fight misandry' or 'we need to fight racism' should be a no-brainer.

As for GG, at this point sadly the movement is undivorceable from the horrible things it's loudest minority did, as far as the public concience is concerned. Whenever GG is brought up by the mainstream Media it's the harrassment and mysogynistic tendencies that parts of the movement did display, that are discussed. Overshadowing, the more serious issues GG was trying to raise awareness for. But labeling the mainstream media or the left wing, as bullies because they take a stance against bulliyng and by proxy pretending that the harrassment didn't happen and the whole GG movement is just a misunderstood part of gaming culture doesn't help either. If you sympathise with a movement, you have to be able to examine it critically and distance yourself clearly from the shit they did wrong in the past in order to do it better in the future. Otherwise your movement will die a slow and muddled death. No one benefits.

Although I would argue that, while mysogyonism was definively also present in the GG harrassment campaings, the fact that these campaings even happened, is more to do with general problems of the internet- and perhaps gamerculture. Death- and rapethreats are much too easliy thrown around, mob mentality and bulliyng happens way too easily. Male devs have been harrassed just as bad before. And to be at the recieving end of such a shitstorm, especially if your adress gets leaked, has to be fucking scary for just about anyone.


I don't think you're correct. Feminism is about women and women only. The media would never acknowledge misandry as an issue.



Lawlight said:
Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

Do you want mysandry to go away?

As for diversity in video games, I think there's plenty. If you actually look at the games that are being released, it's very diverse. The idea that the vast majority of protagonists are white males is dated and needs to be rectified.

Well, if there is mysandry in games, of course I am not for it. It is always a matter of context though, just like with misogony.

You think there is plenty of diversity in games, I think there could be more. I like that we are getting more and more diversity since it makes many games more interesting and a lot more enjoyable. It has become better and better, just looking back 30 years and seeing how gamers reacted to Samus Aran being a woman, compared to how we find it more natural that half of the spartan are male and half female, are good signs. But we can always be better.



AlfredoTurkey said:

Video games, imo, fall into the umbrella of art. You can't dictate what artists are going to make. As long as someone wants to see women half naked with their fake boobs bouncing around, someone is going to put it into a game.

^ this.



Puppyroach said:
Lawlight said:
Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

Do you want mysandry to go away?

As for diversity in video games, I think there's plenty. If you actually look at the games that are being released, it's very diverse. The idea that the vast majority of protagonists are white males is dated and needs to be rectified.

Well, if there is mysandry in games, of course I am not for it. It is always a matter of context though, just like with misogony.

You think there is plenty of diversity in games, I think there could be more. I like that we are getting more and more diversity since it makes many games more interesting and a lot more enjoyable. It has become better and better, just looking back 30 years and seeing how gamers reacted to Samus Aran being a woman, compared to how we find it more natural that half of the spartan are male and half female, are good signs. But we can always be better.

I mean not just in games. GG was just as much a hate campaign against men as it was the other way round.

I don't see how diversity would make, for example, Uncharted a better game if we replace Nathan Drake. Mind explaining that to me?



Nem said:

I'm tired of self proclaimed Social fighters. They are becoming the scum of the earth.

Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

What i want is for them to think about none of that. When you are forcing them to take into account your personal values, their creation is going to be affected by you. It will no longer be their creation. It will be an abortion. 

This leads to very forced and lame creations. You can tell when something is beeing forced in order to give special treatment to groups that think they are discriminated. Its all bollocks because discrimination only happens when you treat someone in a special way. In a way, giving special treatment is also racism. Be it in a negative or positive way. But alas, you wont see said groups unhappy when its a positive special treatment, wich just goes to prove how contradictory they are.

Of course they should think about it. They think about it when they put a guy in a game, or when they depict aliens in one way or another. The way we approach things in life is a product of how we are affected by society and people around us. Being blind to that is just plain stupid.

You may hate "self proclaimed social fighters" but I hate when people think they are for some kind of "liberty" but have problems receiveing critiscism for their expressions. A liberal society is a society where you can say what you want but also receive critiscism for what you say. Crying the moment someone is critical is just silly. So yes, games developers shouldn´t be immune to getting critizised for their games, but we should not as a society therefore regulate what they are allowed to create.