^the catch is new info can always change those

| mesoteto said: ^the catch is new info can always change those |
So your contention is that beliefs can be changed by new info. So do get to choose what info you have access to?
I think the way you are explaining it the words "belief" and "opinion" could be used interchangably. I'm not interested if you can change your opinion. People obviously so that all the time.
fkusumot said:
That's a little bit different argument. But if free will is necessary to choose a belief than it would follow that we do not choose what we believe in.
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As with all illusions some of it is real... so yes we do have a will of our own but it is far from beeing free and there is no way in the world to find out how much of our will is really free... would you think they way you do if you had the DNA of a differen person ??? Or if you were raised by different parents ??? What if you grew up like a wolf-child without human contact ??? Would you believe in morals or religion... we are all to a large part a product of our surroundings... be it our parents, brothers/sisters, friends, religion, culture... even videogames... its way to complex to see what effects you and your will and how much...
So in conclusion... you have choices... but you will never be able to tell if you choose out of free will or if your choice has been influenced one way or the other...
Thats what I meant with free will is an illusion...

sometimes but not always......
i believe that asian cars are the best...so i research to either prove or disprove that notion
^example of choice
but lets say i dont believe in big foot and the only way i will change that belief is to see one.....i may choose to go looking but that does not mean i will see one to change my belief

| El Duderino said: As with all illusions some of it is real... so yes we do have a will of our own but it is far from beeing free and there is no way in the world to find out how much of our will is really free... would you think they way you do if you had the DNA of a differen person ??? Or if you were raised by different parents ??? What if you grew up like a wolf-child without human contact ??? Would you believe in morals or religion... we are all to a large part a product of our surroundings... be it our parents, brothers/sisters, friends, religion, culture... even videogames... its way to complex to see what effects you and your will and how much... So in conclusion... you have choices... but you will never be able to tell if you choose out of free will or if your choice has been influenced one way or the other... Thats what I meant with free will is an illusion... |
Sure. We are the sum of our experiences. Thanks for making a serious post. That's certainly a defensible and reasable position.
People have chosen what to believe for the entire history of mankind. I think historical records rather attests to that. For example, there was a popular belief amongst the wealthy in the 1800s that women were frail by nature and meant to spend their lives bedridden. This had absolutely no basis in reality, but "facts" were invented to support it, and it became almost a fetish. The working class never believed such nonsense, but you would be hard-pressed to convince a well-to-do gentleman of the era that it wasn't true.
On a more personal level, of course you can choose what to believe. It becomes harder to change certain core beliefs you hold as you get older, but it can most certainly be done.
Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

| mesoteto said: ^thats not true..if god were to come down from heaven and start up a conversation with an atheist are you telling me that wouldn't change their beliefs in a day? |
Honestly, that's not the best example to use. A die hard aethiest would probably either believe that it's a scam, or a mental illness before they'd be willing to accept it was God. There's also the idea that God already is down here starting up a conversation, it's just that no one is listening.
Actually, something to consider about whether or not you can choose to change your beliefs:
Just simply by living, we will come across new information that we must interpret. We always have the ability to choose, because when we interprete new information, we are constantly judging it as whether it is information to accept or reject. When you believe in something, there will always be events that happen in life that may conflict or seem to conflict with those beliefs.
We can already reject new information and instead remain resolute in our beliefs, and it is possibile to do this even with the most bountiful of information to the contrary. Therefor any change we make in our beliefs, no matter what our reasoning is, is still a choice, because we also havethe option to NOT change our beliefs.
With that detail ironed out, then yes, it is also possible to choose to change your beliefs in a day. Adding the stipulation of changing our beliefs on a whim is actually very misleading, as it supposes that if we have a reason to change, then it's no longer a whim, but really, choice ALWAYS has SOME reason, otherwise there wouldn't be a choice at all. Sometimes teh reason is simply "because I want to" though.
The other key issue to address is just because people DON'T doesn't mean that people CAN'T. It is POSSIBLE to change our core and key value and beliefs simply on a whim, but why would we? Those are my core values and beliefs, and in many ways as important or more important than my life, but I can chose to cut off my arm, or kill myself on a whim, I just don't want to.
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Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
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Grey Acumen said:
A die hard aethiest would probably either believe that it's a scam, or a mental illness before they'd be willing to accept it was God. |
But atheism itself is a mental illness and a scam...
I´m just kiddind, eveyone can believe what they want and should not be disrespected for it... unless its conspiracy theorys...then yes they should be disrespected...

| Sky Render said: On a more personal level, of course you can choose what to believe. It becomes harder to change certain core beliefs you hold as you get older, but it can most certainly be done. |