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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Am I the only one that thinks RE 4 was a huge breakthrough for the franchise?

For me, it's when the series started to go down hill. It went from a horror survival theme with a bit of TPS to a third person shooter co-op that focuses on action.



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RPGFan1 said:
d21lewis said:

I need examples of tps that were better. 

On consoles, Max Payne series, Armored Core series, Scarface the World is Yours, and Dirge of Cerberus.  

Armored Core didn't use the traditional third person shooting controls until Armored Core Nexus, allowing you to then use dual analaog instead of using L1 and R1 to strafe, L2 and R2 to look up and down.  The Armored Core games have always been about the combat though, and it does its job well.  Even on the PS1 games you were able to move around and aim altogether, even if the style of it was a bit unconventional to todays standards.

Dirge of Cerberus Final Fantasy 7 has fluid controls and it has both an easy targetting system and a more skill based version.  You can quick swap to three different weapon set ups mid combat, much left pressing the directional pad on Resident Evil 5 to quick swap to one of four weapon/items on RE5.  This game came out a year after Resident Evil 4 did.

Scarface the World is Yours also came out a year later, but you can move around while shooting.  There's also a cover system that's pretty much a worse version of what was later used for GTA4  you'll see on the GTA games starting with GTA4.  This games third person shooting mechanic is the one frequently used today and just as good back then as it is now.  Pressing the aim button while an enemy is in your view you'll auto target their body and then you can move it around from there.  This game had that mechanic but also a really fluid free aim mechanic as well.  

Max Payne 1 and 2 are like Max Payne 3 minus the cover mechanic.  Imo they're better games. Max Payne 3 AI is too accurate and the indefinite slow motion whenever you dive just cheapens the game.  

Playing first person shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament on PC and being a fan of the Armored Core series on consoles, when  Iplayed Resident Evil 4, I didn't like the gameplay and still don't.  Resident Evil 4 has too many issues that set it apart from the others though.  The game is no longer a horror game, and as a shooter, you have the inventory system, which is big enough for each location you're at, as you progress you purchase larger case sizes so you can hold more of your equipment, but when changing weapons you're constantly having to open the inventory system than just quick swapping with another gun you have in your inventory.  The difficulty is only what it is because you're forced to remain stationary.  Even the very first Doom and Wolfenstein allowed you to strafe and shoot or move and shoot at the same time.

My comment was a bit overexaggerated.  "Most third person shooters are better" more or less meant "most really good third person shooters are better."    Because Resident Evil 4 isn't a bad game, it is a good game, but it has its issues because it's a shooter that doesn't play as well as other games in the same genre.  Graphics are amazing, great storyline, just a lackluster shooting game and that's where it disappoints me.


We're the same age!  That means I probably played a lot of the same games you've played.

 

With that said, the only game from your list that I've played was Max Payne (2--for the Mona Sax sex scene!).  I hear Scarface was decent.  I hear Dirge of Cerberus was garbage.  Same with titles like Gungrave.  I look at my collection and aside from stelth games, there arent really any TPS games worth my money from back then.  Socom?  Syphon Filter? Duke Nukem: Time To Kill?

I actually don't think of RE4 as a TPS, even though it plays the role very well.  As guy that actually has training with various weapons, I admit that moving and shooting accurately is pretty damn difficult (impossible for me).  Makes for great gaming, though.



I thinks it's great game but certainly not classic RE game.



Well, its legacy is conflicted.

It reinvented the franchise and produced what I consider the best game in the series. But it also effectively buried the survival-horror roots of the series, and led to much more action-oriented sequels.



Player2 said:
RPGFan1 said:

Playing first person shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament on PC and being a fan of the Armored Core series on consoles, when  Iplayed Resident Evil 4, I didn't like the gameplay and still don't.  Resident Evil 4 has too many issues that set it apart from the others though.  The game is no longer a horror game, and as a shooter, you have the inventory system, which is big enough for each location you're at, as you progress you purchase larger case sizes so you can hold more of your equipment, but when changing weapons you're constantly having to open the inventory system than just quick swapping with another gun you have in your inventory.  The difficulty is only what it is because you're forced to remain stationary.  Even the very first Doom and Wolfenstein allowed you to strafe and shoot or move and shoot at the same time.

And chess is difficult (and a bad game) because the King can move only one square.

Have you considered that being able to run and gun would cause serious balance issues in Resident Evil 4 because unlike the enemies from the games you list which carry guns, in RE 4 most enemies are restricted to melee attacks and have weak points that can be hit to stun them which allows the player to execute melee attacks if Lion is close enough?

If you don't like the rules that's your problem as long as the game is balanced.

You could make the comparison towards any game.  Just because the developers included it makes it a good idea?  And I didn't say it was a bad game, I even said it was a good game, just worse than other "shooters," because that is what RE4 is.  Why then was it included in Outbreak 2 and Resident Evil 6 that you could now move?  It was later featured in games like the Dead Space series that were inspired by Resident Evil 4 and did a better job, as well as Shadow of the Damned, the Evil Within, all with the inclusion of movement while aiming.  The developers didn't have to allow you to dash while shooting.  If you look at every other example, as well as the other games I listed that came out around the time of Resident Evil 4, when you're holding your gun out you barely moved.  The only thing not being able to move in Resident Evil 4 accomplished was to constantly make the player stop aiming and then move to a different location when in close range combat with a pistol and you had too many enemies around you. 

It's not like Resident Evil 4 wasn't easy as it was.  The enemies sure dropped enough ammo, so even then, the "balancing" of the game definitely wasn't there.  The only reason you could die was the high amount of damage enemies took off or the ohkos if they happened to land a hit.  And archers in the game while they shot slow, did take a third of your health off.  Let's not forget the games many QTEs which were added in there as a cheap death mechanic during cutscenes.



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ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Did people actually had fear playing res 1 , 2 and 3 ?

Too me those are far from scary, scary was PT, silent hill, dead space. Dont know why people says it killed the horror genre.


It kinda depends on the era you play them as well. I remember being scared as fuck when I first play Silent Hill 2, but nowadays I can't understand how come I could be scared of it back then.

 

Dead Space wasn't scary for me, but I appreciate how immersive its atmosphere is. I think that's what I most value in a horror game nowadays, atmosphere, because I seemingly can't be scared by a game at this point.

 

EDIT: I wanna try SOMA now, hope I'm not disappointed!



Wright said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Did people actually had fear playing res 1 , 2 and 3 ?

Too me those are far from scary, scary was PT, silent hill, dead space. Dont know why people says it killed the horror genre.


It kinda depends on the era you play them as well. I remember being scared as fuck when I first play Silent Hill 2, but nowadays I can't understand how come I could be scared of it back then.

 

Dead Space wasn't scary for me, but I appreciate how immersive its atmosphere is. I think that's what I most value in a horror game nowadays, atmosphere, because I seemingly can't be scared by a game at this point.

 

EDIT: I wanna try SOMA now, hope I'm not disappointed!


I´m playing it right now and.... no, I think you are not gonna be dissapointed :P



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Did people actually had fear playing res 1 , 2 and 3 ?

Too me those are far from scary, scary was PT, silent hill, dead space. Dont know why people says it killed the horror genre.


RE 1 sure as heck was! It was just a couple of jump scares, though.  After that, you scared yourself.

 

The rest, not so much.



Back when it came out it was hailed as the savior of the Resident Evil franchise, a much needed update to a stale and aging formula, and I believe it was more or less considered game of the year. It was definitely considered one of the best games on the Gamecube.

Personally, I loved it. Really, it's one of the few Resident Evil games I've enjoyed. No, I was NEVER a fan of the tank controls of the old games, so I'm biased in that way. But the game still had horror elements (there where many moments of the game that scared the crap out of me, and those writhing grey creatures with the worms inside them......ugh), the game still had back tracking, puzzle solving, all that stuff. I remember it had that stuff because I didn't ike any of that stuff as much as the action-y areas. 

That you even have to ask that question tells me that some people blame it for what happened to the series afterwards, right? Personally, I think that's a silly thing to do. RE4 wasn't the game that turned Resident Evil into an action franchise. Heck, you couldn't even move while shooting (something which became another pretty big criticism by RE5). The game that ought to be blamed for RE6 is....RE6. That's the game that introduced most of what people hate about RE6. Simply introducing over-the-shoulder aiming isn't what killed RE. What killed RE is the industry RE6 was developed in, where AAA games are becoming increasingly homogenized. Capcom wanted to turn RE into Call of Duty, because that's the kind of game that's selling really well right now.



RenCutypoison said:

It was so good it killed the survival horror genre.
At least we got one last great game.

Edit : obviously the genre was revived by indies later, but it took a long time.

I agree. I enjoy old tank controls and not knowing what's coming up to you. Re4 is a good game but not even close to 1,2 or 3 imo. My opinion only, don't hate me.